Smoke and Epilepsy

[JohnB99]

Hi everyone,

 

During last night's performance we had one of the dancers mums complain that the (very little) amount of smoke (which was actually haze) was too much as it would adversely affect her daughter's epilepsy.

 

This isn't something I have ever heard of before, has anyone got any evidence or experience of this? Or is this person perhaps misinformed or overly cautious?

 

Thanks,

 

John

[rossmck]

Not heard of any connection between haze and epilepsy, more often it's asthma sufferers who would complain, but even in people with asthma or similar conditions there is very little evidence to suggest any harmful effects from haze. One thing worth considering is that any flashing / strobing / moving lighting effects will obviously be enhanced by the haze.

 

The simple solution is - ask the dancer herself, did it affect you? ; ) ... I'd be inclined to think it didn't. Even with younger casts typically you'll find the performer themselves will be the first to express their unhappiness about an effect like this.

 

Either Haze or Strobe effects (often both) are part of almost all live performance now - live music, large scale (and even amateur) musical theatre etc. I've just finished helping out at a school's production of WWRY where I used (quite heavily in bits) haze and occasional strobe (on top of another state, obviously, not lighting the entire stage in strobe!) in full knowledge that there were epilepsy suffers in the cast, we just discussed the effects with them in advance.

[matt_beal]

What kind of lighting and other visual effects were being used? Did she actually have a seizure?

 

Stage smoke and haze alone isn't something I've come across as a trigger for Epilepsy, and a quick medical literature search hasn't brought anything up.

 

There are cases of people with photosensitive epilepsy being triggered by certain patterns, so I suppose with the right combination of haze and moving lights you could possibly trigger a seizure... a slightly tenuous link though I think. She may have heard about "smoking" triggering seizures, but that's thought to be because of nicotine.

 

Having said that, I'd probably act on the side of caution and escalate to the relevant person to decide whether to exclude either the haze, or the dancer. You don't want to be held responsible...!

 

Did you ask for any more details? i.e. of what kind of reaction she was having? What kind of epilepsy she had? Had she ever had a reaction to haze before?

 

All the best,

 

Matt

 

(P.S. usual caveat that this is not meant to be medical advice, and as a Medical Student, I'm not qualified to offer such advice. Proper advice from a suitable person should be sought where in doubt.)

[paulears]

Personally, I'm very surprised somebody with photosensitive epilepsy has been put in the position of being in a show. The audience are warned about flashing lights, but from their perspective, they are stationary, so it's only really strobing and possibly flickering that is the issue. For anybody actually performing, then arms legs and people get in the way of static light sources, and the potential for triggering an attack would seem to me, to be higher than I'd be happy with on a risk assessment. If flashing lights, and often red lights are triggers - it seems cruel to put a child through this. In addition you also put the chaperones in a difficult position. Are they trained to deal with epilepsy, I had a quick check with ours here, and one is - the others have no idea of the symptoms to help them spot problems.

 

It's sad for the child, but I'd take them out of the show for their own safety. It's not discrimination if your risk assessment shows an unacceptable risk to their health.

 

If she's likely to have a fit, take her out. I blame the parent. If the show has flashing lights and things dangerous to the child, then her parents are irresponsible in my book!

[themadhippy]

smoke and epilepsy? dont think so,my ole dear is on 40 fags a day and sufefers from a mild form of epilepsy,her trigger point is stress,normally caused by running out of ciggys.

[dmoorcroft]

Was the mother notified that smoke / haze would be used from the offset?

 

Its good practice put up signs in the auditorium listing effects used such as smoke, pyrotechnics, strobe and I always make a point of informing all parents of infant cast members of what effects will likely be used when they first sign up to be in the show.

[J Pearce]

Paul, I think you may be taking a rather hard line there.

Many epileptics can apparently feel it build and know how to manage it.

 

Writing someone off as a performer because they suffer with a condition such as epilepsy isn't on these days. Every time I've worked with an epileptic performer I have spoken directly with them and found a solution that works for everyone. They don't want to ruin the show!

 

On topic - perhaps get in touch, with a tone of 'I'm intrigued by your statement and how the use of smoke affects your daughter. Could you suggest where I can gain more information on this as it is not something I have come across before?'

If shes genuine you get to learn more about it and how to best manage it without ruining the show. If she's a whining old woman she'll probably go quiet and disappear!

[ramdram]

And, if the parent calls herself Mrs Worthington...that Noel, he knew a thing or two.

[Ynot]

One other thing about light sensitive epilepsy, (which is rather OT here, but hey-ho), is that most who suffer don't experience sudden siezures at the merest sign of a flashing light - more it's a regular or constant exposure to flickering or flashing lights. And we're talking hard and fast strobing in most cases for minutes rather than seconds.

 

We thought my youngest might have LSE a few years ago and I chatted at length with the medical staff when we were having her checked - conscious of the fact that she is a dancer, and is regularly exposed to strobes and movers etc. They made it clear that unless someone had an acute form of epilepsy, most sufferers can cope with quite lengthy flashing light sequences, and most learn quickly how to deal with episodes should they loom.

 

 

[paulears]

In the case of the Children at Work Act - the rules are extremely tight. You are specifically required to NOT do a number of things that can cause physical or psychological injury. They cannot, for example, see a scene in a production containing physical or mental abuse. You can't electrocute them, burn them, etc etc - we are not allowed to damage them in any way. we're not allowed to expose them to any risks. Bearing in mind that the parents frequently do not disclose important things - like diabetes (which if controlled, isn't a problem) or the fact the kids may have one of the common letter tags ADHD, OCD and others means that we can't trust the parents to put health over a part in a show - so my attitude is quite form on this. I cannot guarantee that my show, as designed, and produced will not cause the child adverse effects. The kids are added to the production process at the last moment and changing the show to suit the child is just not on. If there's a chance the lighting or effects will trigger even a chance of the onset of the seizure I'm not prepared to do it and the child will walk - how can I satisfy the terms of the license (with my name on it, I note) if I was the cause of the seizure - no matter how unlikely. If the parents keep it a secret, then you don't know, and cannot be blamed. Once they tell you, you are stuffed. It could be harsh - but special protection measure are not able to be pushed to one side just so a child can have his/her part in a show.

 

Last year one child's parents lied on the form and gave the grandparents address - a local one. She actually lived 70 miles away and was put on a train on her own both ways on show days - 3 hours each way! You cannot trust parents of performing kids - some, not all, will cheat, lie and do anything to get their child on stage!

[Gareth A]

As sad as it is - I have to totally agree with Paul on this. Its not worth the license. When I got my chaperones license you realise then that the moment ANYTHING comes up that could harm the child in anyway - as Paul mentions - either psychological or physical, then you have to take measures to stop this. Reducing isn't always and option as something are either good or bad. No middle ground.

 

Now this Parent has brought up her concern, she is actually in a way passing liability to you. By informing you that her child has an issue with said effect, IF you choose to ignore that - and by some weird fact did have an attack - then this is not a good position to be in. For the sake of 1 child or the other 200 in the show - then she has to go. Sad for that child, but ultimately you are actually protecting THEM.

[the kid]

As a thought, does getting rid of the child not go in to employment law, unfair dismissal / disability discrimination etc if it was a pro show?

[paulears]

No - there's no protection for people in full-time education and as these are temporary, often unpaid , uncontracted jobs, they are amateurs experiencing work during a pro show. They are never considered as even supporting cast. production companies rarely contract individuals, but use either the chaperone agency or dance school as the contact point. Same status as a paper delivery boy, or a saturday worker washing up - as in no status at all really!

 

The legislation is now the Equalities Act 2010, which replaced the old Disability Discrimination Act.

 

The critical area is the definition of what constitutes a disability.

A person has a disability if—

(a) The person has a physical or mental impairment, and

(b) the impairment has a substantial and long-term adverse effect on the persons ability to carry out normal day-to-day activities.

 

Clearly in this case, normal day to day activities doesn't include extra activities such as being on stage in a show. So epilepsy shouldn't seem to be deemed a disability - if it's controlled. If taking part in a show increase the persons risk so that it becomes substantial, then the parents have, in my view, made their own child disabled! Most people with epilepsy and diabetes do NOT consider themselves disabled.

[matt_beal]

I'm with Paul on this one.

 

We're not talking about an adult who can say categorically that 1) they will definitely have a recognisable warning and 2) that they will act on that warning to prevent a seizure, or get into a safe part of the theatre. This is a child whose parent has stated that her daughters epilepsy is being triggered. Whether it is the haze, the lighting, or even the stress of being on stage, that cannot be ignored. Even if she does get a warning, which she may well not, who's to say that as a child she will act on it?

 

In an ideal world, the correct course of action is to find out more information about the exact triggers, what warnings she may have etc, and conduct a thorough risk assessment in advance... but it sounds like this wasn't done.

 

I am sure we would all hope that it would be as simple as turning the hazer off, but I think it is reasonable even for a non-medical person to question whether the haze is actually the cause the problem. And if we accept that it could be something else, in the absence of suitable medical advice, there really is only one option. When it comes down to it, theatres can be dangerous places, and if there's no way to minimise/exclude the triggers for this child, she cannot be placed at risk.

 

I once had a dancer faint as she exited into a less-than-spacious wing during a blackout, there were about 15 others exiting the same way but thankfully as she was one of the last off and the wings were relatively well lit she escaped being trampled. She could have been badly injured though, especially on a more complex show. If she'd had any warning that this might happen, it would have been negligent to not take preventative action.

[erroneousblack]

Can't believe this is even being discussed!