Frog floppy emulator

[vinntec]

Many thanks. Peter

[vinntec]

Hi Paul

 

I have suggested to my LDs that we get the identical drive as we know that this has worked. in a Fat Frog.

 

We will take reasonable precautions first, such as putting it in an old PC and seeing if it does anything bad there and check if a normal PC can read/write to the strangely partitioned USB sticks (I can't think why not but will it need 100 x drive letters)?

 

A look on the internet also revealed that there are lots of similar machines for lots of different purposes and it was quite hard to sift out plain old DOS PC 1.44 MB diskette emulators! So being a copycat means we know this has worked elsewhere and if something goes wrong we can compare notes at either end.

 

I won't be making the change until our current season ends (July) so we have plenty of time for it to come from HK, be tested in a PC before we put it in our precious Fat Frog.

 

Finger crossed!

 

Peter

[jonhole]

Hi Peter,

 

After July, would you be willing to let us know how you get on, and we could create a knowledgebase article or forum post on the Zero 88 website to help out other users in the same situation?

 

Best regards,

[PaulDF]

 

We will take reasonable precautions first, such as putting it in an old PC and seeing if it does anything bad there and check if a normal PC can read/write to the strangely partitioned USB sticks (I can't think why not but will it need 100 x drive letters)?

 

A look on the internet also revealed that there are lots of similar machines for lots of different purposes and it was quite hard to sift out plain old DOS PC 1.44 MB diskette emulators! So being a copycat means we know this has worked elsewhere and if something goes wrong we can compare notes at either

 

That is the problem I had, finding the right one!

The software (downloaded from the Internet) doesn't format it into 100 PC drives with independent letters, if you try to access the stick normally all you get is block 0.

You need to use the software to access the other 99 blocks, just open the block, drag n drop to the window, right click the block no and save. It is as easy as that - just don't forget to save the block!

Accessing from the floppy emulator is a case of plugging the stick in and selecting the block. You could of course buy two emulators and stick one into a PC but as I have found my most recent PC doesn't have a 34 way FDD socket on the motherboard and finding a USB to floppy IDC socket is nigh on impossible.

[vinntec]

The software (downloaded from the Internet) doesn't format it into 100 PC drives with independent letters, if you try to access the stick normally all you get is block 0.

You need to use the software to access the other 99 blocks, just open the block, drag n drop to the window, right click the block no and save. It is as easy as that - just don't forget to save the block!

Accessing from the floppy emulator is a case of plugging the stick in and selecting the block. You could of course buy two emulators and stick one into a PC but as I have found my most recent PC doesn't have a 34 way FDD socket on the motherboard and finding a USB to floppy IDC socket is nigh on impossible.

Thanks for the tip - sounds promising as this complication is only for lighting manager (me) to worry about - the others get everything setup already and only have to select the right block on the FF.

Peter

[vinntec]

...Will see how I get on over the next few weeks and will report back.

Hi Paul - we have the emulator waiting for our season to end as planned. Any update from your end? Regards -- Peter

[vinntec]

Firstly I needed to format a USB stick into 100 off 1.44MB "blocks" using some software on a PC first, once that is done I put the stick into the frog and formatted block 0, then selected block 1 and formatted it, then block 2 (and so on - I did 5 in total).

Then put it back into the PC, using the software wrote the up to date fixture files to block 1, intend to use block 0 for saving files for now.

Will see how I get on over the next few weeks and will report back.

Hi Paul - me again. Our emulator arrived in a jiffy bag with no documentation or pointer to resources. What software did you use to prepare the USB sticks before formatting them in the Fat Frog? I don't get the theatre to rig the next show for three weeks, so am thinking about fitting it next weekend if possible. Thanks for your help. Peter

[PaulDF]

See PM

 

...Will see how I get on over the next few weeks and will report back.

Hi Paul - we have the emulator waiting for our season to end as planned. Any update from your end? Regards -- Peter

 

I installed one into a Bullfrog, seems fine. Only had one minor blip where it didn't read the fixture file (at block 01) but read it OK on the second attempt. It may have been me not waiting long enough after selecting block 01 before telling the frog to read it.

Apart from that has been fine.

One thing I did notice is that the red LED is folded back inside the unit, I just bent it over and poked the LED through the hole, this flashes as the unit is reading or writing whereas the green LED lights almost like what you'd expect when a FDD motor is running.

[vinntec]

Just to confirm that we fitted the same USB diskette emulator as PaulDF into our precious Fat Frog last night and it works like a dream. The connectors of the diskette drive came off and connected no problem to the replacement unit in the same orientation. We used the same screws to reattach the new drive (only finding ones came with the unit which were taped to the packaging afterwards).

 

We have not quite figured out how to properly get the cover off the Fat Frog as we are concerned about damaging the multitude of ribbon cables. So it was quite tight doing it with the back pulled out only 4 or 5 inches but was still possible nevertheless. We have a live show in July and I will let you know if there are any problems.

 

Basically what the Fat Frog sees is a 1.44 MB diskette drive. The USB stick is formatted (on a PC with special software) as 100 x floppy disk images. You choose which one you want on the drive as 00-99 using a couple of buttons, one for each numeral. It couldn't be simpler but does mean it runs at the speed of a diskette to be compatible with the FF view of the world.

 

Regards -- Peter

[PaulDF]

I bought a couple of these USB memory sticks too: http://www.sandisk.co.uk/products/usb/drives/cruzer-fit/ as it fits snuggly into the unit and unlike a full sized one won't get knocked and break the same.

[Whizzzy]

The activity on this tread seems to have gone a bit quiet so I would like to share my recent experiences in trying to replace the floppy dive with an emulator.

 

Like a previous OP I ordered one of these from the far east on Ebay. Arrived in about 10 days or so but without any datasheet or instructions on the various options provided by several internal jumper settings. Swapping the floppy drive out with the emulator was a straightforward exercise and on advice earlier in this thread I changed the Bios battery as well. So far so good.

 

I then downloaded one of the partitioning applications and attempted to format the flash stick into a number of partitions which is where I encountered the first issue as my normal home pc is still running with Vista. After a number of aborted attempts it was clear this wasn't going to work so changed to an old laptop running Windows XP. This worked ok and so using an old 512Mb stick I partitioned it into 50 sections. At this stage I haven't had chance to test if the application will run under Windows 7 or 8 so this is something to be aware of.

 

Knowing how fussy the Fat Frog can be in reading floppies which have not been formatted on that device I then proceeded to format the first 10 partitions of the flash drive using the Fat Frog. The flash drive was then transferred back to the laptop so that a number of fixture and show files could be saved. This is fairly straightforward but again with an earlier comment you must remember to consciously save the files in each partition, if you simply copy and paste the files over then exit the application the files will not be saved.

 

I stored a number of different fixture files and show files into the first three partitions on the flash drive, remember that partition 1 is actually '00'. The flash drive was then transferred to the FatFrog. Across the three partitions some files could be read and some were not visible; this transpired to be a problem with my file naming convention and it was due to using a truncated file name rather can keeping it short and within the character limits of a DOS file. So tip No.2 is keep the file names short and without spaces, etc.

 

The third issue I encountered and which still remains is that if I select the floppy emulator to partition 4 (03) and no file is stored in that partition the Frog tries to read the file and naturally reports back that no files can be found. If you then change the emulator back to partition 1 or 2 where I know files are stored then the Fatfrog again reports back as 'no files can be found' even though I know that both show and fixture files are stored in those partitions. What is also odd is that when the enter button is pressed on the FatFrog in order to initiate the file search it reports back immediately that 'no xxxx files found' instead of the usual "Reading Drive - Please Wait".

 

The only way to recover this situation is to power down the Frog and re-initialise everything which is a bit of a pain.

 

At this stage the only work-around I can see will be to store a random or dummy fixture file (.cft) and show file (.isf) in every partition on the flash drive so that even if no wanted files are stored then at least the emulator doesn't go into this state where it seems to be buffering the file access.

 

If anyone has any suggestion on how to overcome this final hurdle then it would be good to hear from you.

Edited September 14, 2013 by Whizzzy

[vinntec]

Whizzy

 

Did you get the identical unit to the one pointed to by PaulDF? (link back in June was to http://www.ebay.co.u...n-/290811571725 and this still works and says they have sold 1,147 of them).

 

We used this exact one and have not had any of the problems you are listing - all 100 partitions are working fine on our Fat Frog for write and read despite being formatted on a PC (Windows 7) - we didn't have to reformat and it doesn't care if a partition is blank. We did use "decent" USB sticks, however, far better than the minimum spec needed and used default everything.

 

I see PaulDF sent the details as a PM direct to me so the these are not on the BlueRoom, so I am repeating them here. Inside the unit should have been a tiny piece of paper saying something about pin 1 being close to the power plug and the address of where to download the software, I think the lead only goes in one way up so doesn't really matter about the first bit. The software download address was http://www.ipcas.com...n-download.html and like PaulDF, we used v1.31t (this also still works and also shows documentation).

 

Did you remember to change the CR2032 battery while you had the Frog in bits?

If you have used a different source then I cannot be sure your one will be the same - the reason we followed PaulDF was that he had researched which exact unit was the right one as there are a multitiude of similar looking ones which will not work in an old DOS-based PC (so Frog range as far as hardware is concerned).

 

Does this help?

 

Peter

[Whizzzy]

Hi Peter,

 

Thanks for the input on this.

 

Yes I did use exactly the same emulator, ordered from i889900 in Hong Kong and also used the partioning software from the ipcas site as you have linked to. As you say the 32 and 4 way connectors can only really go in one way and the fact that the emulator is working about 75% of the time indicates that it is not a connection issue. I have tried a couple of different flash drives, one being a Kingston so I don't believe it is an issue with these either.

 

As mentioned in the earlier post everything works fine and all files can be accessed if I just look in the partitions where I know files are stored but as soon as I try to access any partition where no files are stored then this is when it all goes pear-shaped. Ok, you could say that I should just stick to looking in the partitions where I know files exist but in the heat of the moment it will be easy for me or someone to search other partitions and unwittingly end up in the position where the desk will need to be re-initialised to get up and running again. So I am convinced something is happening between the emulator and the desk when a .cft of .isf file can't be found.

 

The desk is running on firmware V13.3 and OS V10.12.1 if that has any bearing on things.

 

Colin

[david.elsbury]

What size USB drive are you using? It might not like anything larger than a certian size? Try 1gb, maybe a 512mb or 128 if you have one?

[Whizzzy]

I have tried 2 different flash drives, one has 1G and the other 512M. Both behave exactly the same in terms of inconsistent file reading.