Scaffolding as a basic stage structure

[smalljoshua]

There is a lot of deck in Cornwall, Impact (I don't know if it's the same one) in Newquay have a fair bit of Staging, as do a few other people.

 

Josh

[Ynot]

Impact (I don't know if it's the same one) in Newquay .........

Looking at their web site, no they are not the same company.

No harm in trying them, though.

[MGLX]

I have used a number of scaffold stages over the past few years and have always found them to be far easier way of providing an outdoor stage on tight budgets. We work with a large but local firm, who do all the design calcs including audience surges. I simply give him the height, width, depth, and a lighting loading sheet, along with numbers on stage and any other significant weights, speaker cabs etc. He then details away, confirms the price and appears onsite. The bonus of this is they arrive normally on the first day we arrive onsite, they start building the stage and you can get off sorting out deliveries and getting other things set up. They use scaffold beams for the stage floor which helps with two things, getting the entire thing level is much easier, and adds weight to the bottom to help counteract wind loading. Have people considered the uplift wind force on pieces of steel deck especially when used on a sloping ground. I bet alot of people haven't calculated it nor put in place ground anchors to resist this.

 

We always overboard the stages to provide a level platform, but if you do this a couple of times the cost of the boards soon dimminish to next to thing.

The advantage of having a scaffold stage is that it truely can be any size you want, and very adoptable.

 

some companies do have insurance to provide stages and you should shop around, what ever you do though make sure they design the stage in accordance with the current regs as well as with reference to the IstructE demountable structures document. after all it will be you as the organisers who will be first pulled up by the HSE and others should anything go wrong.

[adam2]

I would agree that scaffolding has the merit of weight, and is therefore less vulnerable to wind lift.

I have seen the wind lift sections of a modular stage, and yes it was on a sloping site.

Most large scaffolding firms should be able to build and insure a stage, it is not much different to any other working platform.

They will need to know the maximum weight at one point, the maximum weight per unit area, and the total loading.

 

The uneven boarding is easily covered with plywood or MDF at little cost.

[peza2010]

The uneven boarding is easily covered with plywood or MDF at little cost.

 

Which you would need to factor crew time/cost into the budget.

 

I can't see it myself. I want to order a stage, have it turn up and get built in a short amount of time, without the need for any extra work to make it a stage.

[ramdram]

There's an outfit in Millbrook (nr Torpoint) who claim to have the largest stage in Cornwall and have wide experience of "odd" locations. Cornwall is notorious for being very unflat in places with bits of sticky out rock just to add its charm... I believe an angle grinder comes in useful at times.

 

Not sure said outfit would be over enamoured with sand dunes all over their stage tho'. But would anyone come to that?

[cooldc1]

Bearing in mind recent events involving stages & other structures it defies belief that ANYONE would even consider using a stage that wasn't supplied / built by a competent, reputable company. How many dead people does it take to get the message across? There is so much involved in building a stage that the average scaff company wouldn't even think about never mind implement. Pro staging companies are there for a reason... use them!

[ramdram]

And another thing...the weight of bone dry sand on that area will be over a tonne if even a few cms deep. That is some shifting...and then you have got to get that sand off the staging before the riggers take it away. Sounds as tho' your Director matey needs a word in his ear.

[Pete McCrea]

Whilst a proponent of using a reputable staging company, I would have thought any decent scaffolding company can easily design (or contract a designer in ) the stage to take several tons of sand. If they know it's going to be there... Ultimately whether using scaf or staging, the supplier need to know what's going on it.

 

With regard to scaf and wind - think of some of the massive structures that clad buildings and the wind loads that these have to take, especially when clad with sheeting to protect the workforce or building. That said they often have the luxury of being ably to use the building for restraint.. I would suggest that wind loading is the biggest issue in scaf design, so again they should be ok.

 

But again I would suggest getting a proper staging company in place to do this.

[ramdram]

T-I-c warning...OK then the staging can be strong enough to withstand the sand loading...but what about the surface the legs sit on...even with proper scaffold feet the weight would be substantial...I believe the production was supposed to be the "Tempest"...not "Atlantis, the Last Day". (groan)

 

How about some cheapo boarding, reclaimed OSB say. Boards covered in a mix of Artex and sand and the odd clump of samphire together with a few pebbles and shells and bits of driftwood for the wreckage. Should give the impression of a beach at least. After all the Dir. isn't going to do the whole tempest bit with hoses and pails...err, is he?

 

Plus if the wind got up (you did say it was an outdoor venue) there might be an unwanted effect similar to Lawrence of Arabia...as in a load of sand whipped about at eye height. Something else for the RA?

 

Thinking about it I am rapidly coming to the conclusion your Director really has not thought this through...I'd further suggest the beach is painted over with matte varnish...several coats...

[DSA]

You mention that the event is in June 2012; you have time to consider this properly and not rush into it. What follows are some personal thoughts on the matter, which are not intended to be fully comprehensive.

 

The bottom line is that whatever form of structure you opt for, it needs to be adequately designed for the site conditions by a suitably competent person. That doesn't mean you have to spend thousands and thousands on a design, but it does need to be done properly.

 

A lot has been said already about the structure, be it scaffold (tube and fitting, or system), or proprietary decking with a scaffold substructure, but little has been said about the ground conditions. Design leg loads should be assessed and pads/feet adequately sized for the allowable bearing pressure at the applied level. It may perhaps be appropriate to design for the deck to span over a local soft spot. It would seem reasonable to allow for the sand to be saturated, and drifting up to the top of a (presumed) edge retaining strip. Wind uplift would also need to be considered, and the forces could be significant with the site being quite close to the sea. Will the edge of the stage be clad? In the uplift load case it would also seem inappropriate to include the dead weight of the sand as a restraining force, as it could well have blown away by this point.

 

You may also need to inform local building control, if you haven't already, and if so they will likely insist on seeing some sort of calculations for the temporary structure.

 

Structures can be relatively complex beasts, and whether they are erected for a week or a hundred years, the forces require due consideration and need to be treated with respect. You have approached the problem correctly by trying to get a professional firm onboard, and it seems like you have found one willing to take the job on; just make sure they are also competent to design it for your situation (you need to tell them about the additional timber deck and the sand etc.), or that they pass the design on to someone else who is competent to design it. Ask them to provide proper calcs so you are sure this is the case.

 

Do you have an engineer (civil/structural) within the group who could assist? The IStructE book "Temporary Demountable Structures" would also be worth a look, and contains lots of helpful advice for this sort of work.

 

In summary I was reading this article by Rob Sayer last night which appears rather apt, so I'll include it here: Click Here

 

Hope you get it all sorted OK.

 

David

[Pete McCrea]

And for reference, DSA is a practising Civil Engineer, working for a respected regional company, with one of the UK's leading authorities on Temporary structures in the practice. So his post isn't based on conjecture but experience and education.

[alanhj]

I would just like to take this opportunity of thanking all of you for your comments and advice. I never thought when I posed the question that the response would be so fantastic.

Just to give you all a bit more information. The stage be it scaff or steel deck will be sighted in a courtyard 78ft x 63ft with two entrance/exits on opposite sides together with buildings on two sides and high walls (Say 12ft high) on the other two. The flooring is solid but it is cobbled which may cause a problem.

I doubt if the wind factor will have any bearing due to the location of the stage. It will be situated in one of the corners at a 30 degree angle. So unless we have a hurricane I really don't see a problem! Sand has been scrapped, but I do like the idea of the imitation version.

I am getting quotes re steel deck, my only concern is how to fix certain items; for example: There is to be a free standing 10ft x 8ft flat (This is to mask the actors entrance from the "Backstage" dressing room which is in fact some old, but very clean stables) We want the audience to see them make an enterence but not coming out of the dressing room and climbing up the rear steps up to the stage.

If I use scaff with boarding on top, I would simply screw or bolt the flat through the top board and down into the scaff board. This flat would be placed say 4ft down stage from the rear. I would then support the top of the flat with two pieces of timber say 3ft6ins in length and attach two wooden uprights to them. The uprights again being screwed or bolted into the boarding. Doubt if a steel deck company will allow me to make holes even small ones in their decking.

So, assuming that nothing can be secured to the decking via screws or bolts. How do I secure this flat and a few other items we need?

[Tom]

Most steeldeck companies will not have problem with you screwing into their decks - particularly if you tell them you're going to so they can give you the rough and ready ones and not the pristine conference ones. It would be polite to tell them you're putting it outside any way as once again this may influence which decks they give you.

 

T

[Tregilibob]

regards attaching flats, french brace and stage weights have worked for years......