3rd Class Degree that bad?

[Big Jay]

I got my results today and whilst happy I actually passed, I couldn't help feel that a 3rd is the lowest of the lowest!

 

I our industry, is this perceived bad? The problem I found is that my work was marked purely on essay alone and not practical work which an academic master, I'm not.

 

I am right to be feeling like a bit of a failure, I mean after all, I still got a degree with honours...

[indyld]

In my experience, while every student has designs on a 2:1 the reality is that it should be bl**dy hard to get a bachelors degree with honours and it is. This year I've had some excellent final year students that started the year with such hopes only to find a more realistic classification goal as the year came to a close. (BTW, these were FdA + Top Up Year BA (Hons), so the outcome became apparent toward the end of their "final" year).

 

All those students will go on to make excellent "practitioners" (to use the jargon), industry professionals if they wish to. Like many stages of formal education, our industry doesn't focus on degree classifications in the same way as others might and I would count yourself lucky to even have a higher education qualification at any level. I reminded my most disappointed students that a BA (Hons) is more than I have, despite attending one of the better drama schools and with 20+ years industry experience. So, it's not 'arf bad.

 

And I always hear similar "I'm no good at essays", "I just want to be marked on my work in the theatre" etc. Unsurprisingly, some of my most industry ready students have walked out with average degrees because a BA (Hons) is hard and it should be. Getting a good degree, especially a 2:1 or higher requires consistent high performance across all disciplines and in all methods of assessment - and that isn't as easy as it sounds. Students on the whole get the degree they deserve (not having a pop at the OP, just my experience.)

 

Now, we could (and often do) debate if such a degree makes an industry starter better at knocking truss together or cutting gel, but higher education is about so much more than learning a trade. I know I find it heartening to know that the full range of marks and classifications are being awarded by institutions (including Fails and Pass degrees) because it shows that the system is working and gives value to the whole thing. If, in the £9000 fee paying brave new world, students feel that they are stumping up cash to buy an upper second by rights, they will be in for a shock. Anyway, that's a discussion for another day.

 

Bottom line, I know plenty of good people both in our industry and elsewhere that really know their onions and have great jobs - and somewhere in the mists of time they may have gained an "average" degree but it hasn't held them back.

 

//Edit to add: You might also bear in mind what a 3rd from 'X' institution is worth, compared to a 1st for 'Y'. Certainly in many industries the establishment can be as important as the classification.

[Junior8]

You got a degree - well done! Most people still don't. As for the classification - if you got what you think is a fair one reflecting your performance all is well. Plus over the years I've come to agree with the previous poster ie that it becomes less relevant. For now enjoy and make sure your family enjoy your success as well. A failure you are not. And they can't take the letters away from after your name ever either!

[Dave C]

Yes,

 

Congratulations! Earning a degree, especially an honours grade, is more than many people have the opportunity or even ability to achieve.

 

Don't forget though, in a few years time what will matter is what you have done since your degree.

 

Good luck for the future!

[erroneousblack]

TBH as someone who has hired and fired for 30 odd years a degree makes no difference when hiring. Back in my day there were no Degree courses just NCDT Diplomas. A couple of years back a stroppy member of staff with a Degree fron Central gave serious attitude whilst saying, "that's not a fresnel, it's a 743"!

[Shez]

I don't think I've ever done a job in this industry where a degree has been a prerequisite. All the extracurricular stuff I did whilst getting my degree helped a lot, but the degree itself hasn't. And whilst not wishing to devalue your degree, I suspect the majority of people who have offered me work over the years based on recommendations or reputation couldn't care less whether I have a degree or not. They certainly never asked.

 

Well done though, and good luck. I have a few friends who have recently attained bachelors, masters and doctorates, all of whom are struggling to find work. You need a lot more than a degree on your CV to be successful in the job market these days.

[callumb]

Congrats on the degree! IMO most if not all university course are based heavily on written work for than anything pratical. I compared a few courses before choosing the one I went on. Of all courses I looked into all university courses based the assessment heavily on the written aspect and little on the pratical! Meaning if you can't write and essay it's going to be hard to get a decent grade. I settled for a HNC and all but the graded unit was based on the pratical stuff none of the essay style things. Paper work was just the things you would need to do anyway if you were the SM and such.

[djw1981]

Congrats.

 

The one issue you could find, especially if you put your degree class on your CV etc, then you need to be able to explain to an interviewer why your work got the grade of third class; and the subsequent question 'if we employ you and train you in X, will this problem occur again?'.

 

So if the problem is that you are a more hands on person who did the degree, found the written work very hard, but is very practical and proficient; then say that - you have demonstrated sticking power (commitment, determination) and have developed those skills to a higher level than they were at the start of the course, thus showing some personal development. If you were casual / freelancing when you should have been doing your academic stuff, then you need to spin this to practical experience, financial restraints etc but it may go down less well. And in the pub / couldn't be a*sed is probably the hardest to spin / explain.

 

Accentuate the positive attributes you have gained from the degree process, but be prepared to explain why the circumstances which led to this degree results are not a) indicators of your normal work rate / wor ethic or b) why it won;t be the same result from any futture training that an employer may wish to put you through.

 

As others have said though, who you know and how good you are it is likely to mean more than a degree certificate.

[brainwave-generator]

In my experience at university, the students who got 1sts and 2:I's were the ones who spent all their time doing coursework, research, studies and seeing their tutors, and the only thing on the side of that was their social agenda.

 

The people who spent the 3 years freelancing, interning, work experience'ing, and generally dipping their toes into the sea of work, mostly got low 2:I's, 2:ii's, and 3rds.

 

Thing is, when we graduated, I got all the clever kids on Facebook saying "got a 1st! Oh aren't I great?!" and I was like "fair enough, but I work a few days a week in a good venue, you've done nothing. so enjoy telling your colleagues in the BT Call centre about your 1st, maybe I'll see you when you're down as a punter"

[gareth]

Well done on your results.

 

I'm a B.Eng.(hons) having graduated with a third, nearly twenty years ago. In this business, no-one even cares that I've got a degree, never mind what classification it is. Even if I was working in an industry where it was relevant, the vast majority of the time the distinction would only be between being a graduate or not being one.

 

Enjoy your new-found freedom from academia, before knuckling down to many years of hard work in order to pay off your massive student loan ;).

[d_korman]

Well done on your results.

 

I'm a B.Eng.(hons) having graduated with a third, nearly twenty years ago. In this business, no-one even cares that I've got a degree, never mind what classification it is. Even if I was working in an industry where it was relevant, the vast majority of the time the distinction would only be between being a graduate or not being one.

 

Enjoy your new-found freedom from academia, before knuckling down to many years of hard work in order to pay off your massive student loan ;).

 

Have to agree with Gareth - I have a BSc 3rd in Electronic Engineering, but that didn't really even get me my first job (as a design engineer); I got that on the back of having worked there during the summer vacation before the results came out. After that it was down to experience more than anything - no-one ever asked anything about my degree (though it was on my CV, of course).

[indyld]

In my experience at university, the students who got 1sts and 2:I's were the ones who spent all their time doing coursework, research, studies and seeing their tutors..

 

God damn those pesky students, actually studying n all that, making everyone else look bad and coming out with a 1st. Different people work, and study, in different ways and there is nothing wrong with learning on the job but there is also nothing wrong with research and doing coursework. Hopefully the coursework and the rest of the programme were designed to meet the intended learning outcomes, along with the relevant assessment scheme.

 

I can actually dispel such myths as "real working is bad for your mark" with an example from last year where one of our students learned so much by being on the casual crew at the local receiving house that he left with a 1st AND walked straight into a decent job at the theatre. It's not one or the other.

 

Working in the industry outside of the university setting should be encouraged at every turn (and integrated into the culture of the course) but to imply that doing research and coursework is "swotting" and of no value is inaccurate. Likewise assuming that because someone has a 2:1 must mean they are bookish and useless on a fit up.

 

Of course, the classification doesn't tell the full story. As an example, at my institution you could make sure you were only marked on a single lighting design (as a portion of your module mark, which makes up the final total, yadda yadda) or you could have a stab at several, plus two sound designs for major shows and each time change your process, make mistakes and learn a hell of a lot. In the end, your averaged mark could be less than if you had played safe and tried your very best just once.

 

It's important that the learners, and their potential employers, value the learning and not just the classification which is why a student with a 3rd but a demonstrable learning journey through work in the business may be the best person for your next gig.

 

But let's not dismiss those that got any award, whatever classification.

[Just Some Bloke]

Well done in getting an honours degree. I have one myself and I have to agree with others that it hasn't made the slightest difference to the jobs I've got, which I've won on experience alone.

 

However, I wonder if this could be a learning opportunity for those curently deciding where to go for their post-school training. The whole point of a degree course, as opposed to any other FE/HE course, is that it involves theory: not just learning that a Par can and a fresnel have different colour temperatures, but learning WHY they have different colour temperatures, for instance. If you either don't care why (and, let's face it, you can probably get by perfectly well in the business without knowing why) or you're not good at commiting that sort of thing to memory and regurgitating it in an exam, then maybe a degree course is not for you. Wouldn't you be better taking a more practical-based course and doing really well than taking a degree course and feeling a bit of a failure at the end becuase you got a third when others got a 2:1? It really is terrifically important that you pick the right course for you before you've even started (and, indeed, applied) so that you're setting yourself a realistic goal for the end of it.

 

To the OP - I'm sure you'll have a terrific career ahead of you. When you put your qualification on your CV just put B.A. (Hons) and leave it at that. You'll be sureprised how seldom anyone asks what grade it was! :)

[Jivemaster]

Degree is fine (Mine is BSc (ord) in Chemistry) What your next employer wants though is recent experience doing the job. However the degree will stay with you for life, and may later facilitate further and higher career moves -if you so chose.

 

Try to maintain some of the academic skills and even look out short courses to keep your skills current. One day the "person specification" will prefer that the postholder is a graduate, then you have an advantage over other applicants.

[brainwave-generator]

In my experience at university, the students who got 1sts and 2:I's were the ones who spent all their time doing coursework, research, studies and seeing their tutors..

 

God damn those pesky students, actually studying n all that, making everyone else look bad and coming out with a 1st. Different people work, and study, in different ways and there is nothing wrong with learning on the job but there is also nothing wrong with research and doing coursework. Hopefully the coursework and the rest of the programme were designed to meet the intended learning outcomes, along with the relevant assessment scheme.

 

Did I say that?

 

My point was that different methods of developing suit different people. Some people develop better through experience, others through education.

 

It was my personality of learning solely through experience and really hating research and what not, that led me to leave university. I did not finish the programme until much later when I returned having found that a degree would not go amiss even in a solely technical trade of which I was well experienced in.

 

I can actually dispel such myths as "real working is bad for your mark" with an example from last year where one of our students learned so much by being on the casual crew at the local receiving house that he left with a 1st AND walked straight into a decent job at the theatre. It's not one or the other.

 

Q- What kind of degree is best fulfilled through skills gained as local crew?

A- A vocational-training based degree.

 

What is the irony here? The degree, in itself, is a research based degree and cannot be completed to a high standard through work experience. If it's a proper degree you do need to put your head in a book.

 

I wasn't knocking people who choose to bury their heads in books and score highly in what is a research-based qualification. All I was pointing out is a seeming correlation between those who actually get decent jobs and those who get high-scoring degrees doesn't exist at all, and in fact, in many cases, the very opposite is in fact true.

 

A greater point that I would like to raise on this subject is this: It matters less what classification you get, than what degree you get and where you get it from. I studied a music orientated course. Of the tens of thousands of students each year who graduate from music degrees, a Music Week study showed less than 10 courses which were 'taken seriously' by the mainstream music industry. "Taken seriously" meaning, actually contributed to their decision on top of your interview.

 

Of course, the classification doesn't tell the full story. As an example, at my institution you could make sure you were only marked on a single lighting design (as a portion of your module mark, which makes up the final total, yadda yadda) or you could have a stab at several, plus two sound designs for major shows and each time change your process, make mistakes and learn a hell of a lot. In the end, your averaged mark could be less than if you had played safe and tried your very best just once.

 

So your degree (or is your insitution where you work?) consists of predominantly doing lighting and sound in theatre? Is that really a degree course? Sounds like it should be an HND to me (if they still exist).

 

We have reached a point in society where it is widespread belief that a degree is the only form of higher education. This has lead to courses which really do not comprise of the basic building blocks of a 'proper' degree, and instead make up the three years with filler. To me, a lighting design just does not show the standards that a degree exists to represent. A book-size written article on how changing technology has permitted productions with a greater focus on technical offerings; or on how changing budgets through history have demanded a shift in the technical compatibility of both equipment and technicians; or something like that - is degree worthy material. A coursework involving handing in some lighting plots is a method of filling 3 years worth of time so that you can make a business out of misguided kids who think they need a degree to succeed in life.

 

So you ask - what IS the value of a book-size article on "The effects of Health and Safety developments in the British Theatre Industry on production standards, production budgets, and production capability; and whether safer workplace has genuinely bettered the industry" when it comes down to finding a job packing trucks. Answer - none! But it's not supposed to!

 

The greater issue in the current education situation is that people need to realise they do not need a degree at all; and further to that - if you are going to do a degree, you are far better choosing something with a worthwhile curriculum than something which sounds fun. Yes, everyone should get 'qualified', but the degree is not the only qualification out there. There are vocational qualifications for 'do-ers', there are academic qualifications for readers and writers (the degree being one), and then there are work-based qualifications for workers, such as IPAF cards and forklift licenses.

 

If you do have a degree, then regardless of your classification, you simply need to be able to show what your degree encompasses and why it is of value. A first-class honours degree in doing lighting designs from the University of Ex-Poly West Nowhere-Shire will not drive you as far as an 3rd in English from Oxford, even in the world of lighting design; since the Oxford English degree demonstrates you have achieved academically where the Lighting Design degree proves you can play with WYSIWYG for 3 years and write a few thousand words about it.

 

I do a little ad-hoc work for a small, specialist media college offering courses in live sound, studio recording and radio production. We are explicitly 'vocational training' IE we teach how to do it, not how to write about it. We do not stick 'BA (Hons)' in front of all our course titles to validate them, we actually fit them up with appropriate qualifications types. What we have found is that the employers they go onto work for are no less interested in these qualification types than they are of degrees.

 

So my advice? Don't worry about your grade too much. The degree itself, what it's in, and where you got it from are of far greater importance; and being able to justify it in interview is the main skill you will become accustomed to.