Monster rock shows.

[Judge]

Shows are really becoming big are they not? I thought this several years ago when the Stones were out with 50 trucks or something. U2 tour has 73. Take That have 72.

 

72 trucks.

 

In this months TPI there is an article about the big sheds here in the UK and the problem with the venues built in the 80s and early 90s apparently is that generally the roof can only support 40 tons over the stage.

 

Only 40 tons - thats just....nothing is it?

 

Anyone remember the band in the Hitchhikers Guide To The Galaxy - Disaster Area? They were so big that they had to have their left and right PA stacks on different planets.

 

I'm just saying... :)

[paulears]

So loud is this band that the audience usually listens from the safe distance of thirty seven miles away in a concrete bunker (Disaster Area, not Take That).

[David Lee]

Anyone remember the band in the Hitchhikers Guide To The Galaxy - Disaster Area? They were so big that they had to have their left and right PA stacks on different planets.

Based on Douglas Adams mates Pink Floyd

[Andrew C]

To be fair, I'd want to be more than 37 miles from a Take That concert. I reckon that if Led Zep had still been going, they would have done a Sun Dive by now!

[kerry davies]

Aaah, now that reminds me of the time we set fire to Planty's garden. Huge Smiley Sun fire sculpture, flame labyrinth and fireworks.

 

The days of monster tours are numbered as the costs of trucking are going through the unsupported roof. I have a feeling that bigger shows will still tour but that they will spend longer in regional centres with a run of shows at the same venue.

[Simon Lewis]

"Many worlds have now banned their act altogether, sometimes for artistic reasons, but most commonly because the band's public address system contravenes local strategic arms limitations treaties". ;-)

 

 

 

[Seano]

Shows are really becoming big are they not? I thought this several years ago when the Stones were out with 50 trucks or something. U2 tour has 73. Take That have 72.

Those are all stadium shows, playing on custom touring stages/structures. So depending on how you look at it, if you include those (usually two or three of them leap-frogging each other from venue to venue to make such a tour feasible) there are rather more trucks involved even than that.

 

For example, I found this photo from the U2 '360' tour:

 

http://www.deepsoup.f2s.com/BR/U2_claw.jpg

 

The trucks in the picture are full of production kit (rigging and power distro I presume, as they're the first to be unloaded) so would count towards your 73.

The structure towering over them, which is one of three such identical beasties, doesn't. So if you add that in its another n trucks times three. In other words, er.. lots! ;)

 

Quite a platform to stand on and lecture the punters about the environment and how to treat the world's poor (among other sermons), innit? But I digress.

 

In this months TPI there is an article about the big sheds here in the UK and the problem with the venues built in the 80s and early 90s apparently is that generally the roof can only support 40 tons over the stage.

Interesting. Not available online anywhere I suppose?

Anyone got a copy I can get a look at?

 

None of the shows you mentioned were venturing indoors, so if you're talking 'sheds' I don't think they really count.

 

Only 40 tons - that's just....nothing is it?

I don't think we really have any 'big sheds' in the UK as such, certainly not by American standards.

Probably only three or four UK venues come close. (I'm thinking Sheffield, Manchester and London O2.)

Which venues does the TPI article discuss?

 

Its actually quite tricky to define how much weight you 'can' hang in an arena. If you really want to know, first you have to say exactly where you want to hang it, if you see what I mean. It isn't routine to consult the structural engineer for every show - generally there's a standard 'load-case' (or several) giving examples of what you can hang. 40 tonnes sounds about right for a UK arena - but that contains a fair bit of er.. wiggle room.

 

Roof loading capacity is like power I suspect - how ever much you have there will always be times when you'd like a little bit more.

 

In some respects things have been getting lighter over the last few years. PA systems for example - back in the '80s and early '90s a 'rock monster' tour probably would have been using Clair Brothers S4 or Showco Prism - heavy stuff.

 

The last time I saw one of those was in 2003 I think, another photo:

 

http://www.deepsoup.f2s.com/BR/speakerstack1.jpg

 

It all seemed rather old-fashioned by then, and when the band toured again a few years later they had a couple of arrays of VDosc (I think) per side, at quite a considerable weight loss. Sounded better to me, though I'd have to admit it certainly didn't look as impressive.

 

Video too - LED screens were just catching on as I started hanging stuff up for a living, and they were typically pretty heavy back then. A decade later they're bigger, brighter, and (literally) tons lighter. They still seem to be getting lighter too - give it a few more years and a high resolution screen may weight less than a starcloth. That'd be nice.

 

In my experience it isn't usually a 'rock monster' tour that's pushing the limits, to a degree I guess they're limited by the logistics of actually having to tour the thing. TV 'spectacular' type shows (like Eurovision, for example) are probably more 'monstrous'.

 

(Disaster Area, not Take That).

Oh, I don't know. Seems like a good idea in either case to me. ;)

[Judge]

Hey Seano

I thought at the time the there was some sort of bizarre disconnect between the supposed global political concern that U2 have, and their show which has the MOST of EVERYTHING....EVER!!!

An interview with Paul McGuiness though puts things in perspective:

 

"Actually, most of the carbon footprint of the show comes from not our production vehicles or the generation of the power needed, but the punters vehicles and transport coming to our shows. We can't help it if we are so popular."

 

Fair enough Paul. That clears that up then. Move on...nothing to see here.....

 

The Take That tour apparently - 8 trucks just to transport Big Man. Article online here: linkage

 

Cannot find online info about sheds article. I agree that our sheds are somewhat lacking in comparison with US sheds. The last U2 tour was unable to fit into any UK venues because it was designed for US situations. Maybe then guys...just a thought...your production is JUST TOO BIG!

 

Love your photo of the Prism cluster, Big, but a seriously good sounding rig. As opposed to S4 which was just a Bunch Of Big Speakers in Big Boxes. The most over rated and huge and heavy PA system ever. Has to be said eh? Line arrays have their drawbacks, but as they have put paid to Clair S4 rigs I say yay.

[savage1]

I was quite amused when BonJovi were still using a load of S4 (ok the main hangs were i5 but all along the front of the stage was S4)

[marktownend]

http://www.tpimagazine.com/ then click on Current Issue. Big pdf or similar. Take That article starts on page 26, sheds on page 54.

[Seano]

Love your photo of the Prism cluster, Big, but a seriously good sounding rig.

Funny you should say that - I used to think it sounded dreadful. Then, finally, I got to hear it sounding good and it was very, very good. A bit of a revelation in fact. Maybe it would be fair to say its a rig that *can* sound good if its driven right (which, sadly, it seems it usually isn't). ;)

 

http://www.tpimagazine.com/ then click on Current Issue. Big pdf or similar. ... sheds on page 54.

 

Ah. Very interesting, ta for the link. :)

 

I'm not impressed with this bit though:

 

Lady Gaga went out on the road in February 2010 and performed at around 12 venues in the UK and Ireland. Amazingly only one venue had any clue about what was coming through the doors.

 

Tellingly, nobody on the production side had ever issued a rider or corrected drawings and to make it more stressful.

 

That's rubbish - at least as far as rigging/roof loading goes.

 

It was a mad, mad tour right enough.

 

Bit harsh to blame "the production side" for the stresses though, I think its reasonable to say the problems were more er... artistic, in origin. Hard to see what they could have done to give venues more notice when the whole concept of the show changed radically only a couple of months before the start of the tour.

 

Interviewed a few months before the tour, Lady GaGa herself said: "My team thinks I'm completely psychotic. But I don't f**king care what they think." She wasn't wrong!

(Quote picked up from Wikipedia)

 

The promoter's rep wasn't the only one to deserve a medal for coping with it all. Among others, also fairly heroic on the UK/RoI leg of the tour was the rigger who put a lot of effort into updating the rigging plots and liaising with the venues.

 

It was a mad, heavy, beast of a show but from a rigging point of view at least, largely thanks to his efforts, I don't recall it being unusually stressful for the venues. (At least not the ones where I worked on it, and I am fairly sure I would have noticed.)

 

The author owes that man an apology I reckon.

(As the designer of Sheffield Arena, he'll be instantly forgiven. Riggers love that roof.)

[Kopy]

When it came to Australia they had to ground support most of the shows as it was too heavy.

[Seano]

http://www.tpimagazine.com/ then click on Current Issue. Big pdf or similar. Take That article starts on page 26

Regarding that Take That article, it struck me as very poor form that the article included a close-up photo of a couple of 'sticky' passes for a show that was still running. (Not any more, last show was tonight.) It really wouldn't have been hard at all to use photoshop or similar to knock up some convincing fake passes based on that. Just me, or is that a bit of a schoolboy error from an 'industry' magazine?

[erroneousblack]

I've always looked at music gigs from a low tech level. When I saw the likes of The Clash, Banshees, Buzzcocks, Magazine, The Fall, Birthday Party produce perfection from the back of a transit van, the more I got bored with overly corpulent fret wakners!

[Nick512]

 

In this months TPI there is an article about the big sheds here in the UK and the problem with the venues built in the 80s and early 90s apparently is that generally the roof can only support 40 tons over the stage.

 

Only 40 tons - thats just....nothing is it?

 

 

I haven't seen the article, but I can tell you for a big show of any type 40 tons isn't actually that much. Now its more the weight of powered speakers vs big clusters as per the prism system. Heavy moving lights vs miles of par cans and Really heavy LED walls vs Lightweight LED everywhere.

 

One of the limits on my designs is weight. as a general rule the total weight of a show should not be more than 45 tons for a show that hits europe or 55 tons or (120,000 Lbs) for a North america show only. this will allow it to hang easily in 98% of venues.

 

Another challenge that is more and more common is in the round shows which automatically add mother trusses and miles of extra cables and 360˚ Audio Coverage before you think of flying gag's, set, Lights and Video. It all adds up and very quickly.!