Tomo Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Something that can help is to refer to the effect as "Haze", and never call it smoke. Smoke has much more serious connotations than haze. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Lee Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 was just a drop in the ocean and the guys organising the night are not going to return That is the only thing he will listen to if it is just his laziness - lack of repeat business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleah Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 I used to own and run a venue in Southend. when the time came to have the fire alarm fitted, I sat down and discussed it with the fire chief. The conclusion was that NO smoke detectors were required in the main auditorium or on stage. The reason was that for an installation to meet requirements, all efforts must be made to eliminate false alarms. It was a theatre and theatres use smoke, haze and pyro's. A fire alarm is an early warning system put in place to save lives. If there is an auditorium with people in it, the chances are they will spot a problem before a fire alarm is triggered. I now work in a theatre that is a listed building. Because of this ALL areas have to be protected with smoke detectors. We have a system that allows us to switch the main theatre and the studio space over to heat detectors, for any performance requiring the use of effects that generate smoke.It is our responsibility to switch them back at the end of the performance (after the smoke has cleared). Daniel. You were clearly given correct and excellent advice. I suspect a lot of times, the fire alarm vendors/installers don't have a clue about such things are are only interested in selling a system.When a new system was fitted in one of our buildings at work (school) I stepped in before it was complete and ensured we could isolate the appropriate sensors. Something I will probably have to do again this summer as another building is updated that has a performance area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LXbydesign Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Case in point. One venue I was at a couple of weeks ago, the manager was a bit clicky with regards to using haze and smoke. So I suggested, well why dont we try it - have one of your guys on standby incase the alarms go off, and then we'll know! He agreed. (maybe buying him a pint helped!!) The alarms went off as soon as the detectors sniffed the smoke, but after a reset and clearance, I tentively tried the haze and after 15 minutes of full output and the entire hall 'covered', there was no reaction :-) Haze it was then.. - and no smoke. The manager seemed pleased by this result and asked me what haze machine / fluid we were using (QTX light fluid, as it happened). I informed him, but said you may not want to assume that any type of haze, ie cracked oil, might not set off the detectors. So he then said. Ok well would it be fair enough to say..no smoke... under any circumastances but each company coming in can try out the haze first?. Sounded fair enough to me. He COULD isolate the whole lot to be able to use both - but he preferred not to. Quite understandable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew C Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 I know I've written this before. We had a demo from one of the alarm companies (Gent, maybe) and the reptile had a head that detected smoke, CO, CO2 , heat, and rate of rise. Fully programmable as to what it would respond to. So say it detects smoke or cracked oil in a very hot room, with elevated CO2 from all those sweaty punters, but the rate of rise was low, and no CO, no alarm - simples. The head could also include a flashing beacon, and a voice alarm (RUN AWAY, RUN AWAY!). Worth looking into if you are getting new alarms installed, or considering an up-grade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brainwave-generator Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 I know I've written this before. We had a demo from one of the alarm companies (Gent, maybe) and the reptile had a head that detected smoke, CO, CO2 , heat, and rate of rise. Fully programmable as to what it would respond to. So say it detects smoke or cracked oil in a very hot room, with elevated CO2 from all those sweaty punters, but the rate of rise was low, and no CO, no alarm - simples. The head could also include a flashing beacon, and a voice alarm (RUN AWAY, RUN AWAY!). Worth looking into if you are getting new alarms installed, or considering an up-grade. http://www.latenightwithjimmyfallon.com/HolyGrail072.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGLX Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Not sure if this is going to help or not but the following link has proved useful in the past with me. but sure enough nothing less than going to the venue and having a demo with the guys will set their mind at rest and make the decision. One venue we went to wouldnt touch it due to a past experience with a smoke machine, after a demo with the hazers they were happy with us to bring them along. We are now supplying them with all their hazers, even for outside productions so a little extra work and patience paid off for us! ETA: although the video is from Auss, the majority of it still applies. and the usual disclaims etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivemaster Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 There are a LOT of venues that have been fitted with high sensitivity smoke detectors for licensing, listed building, and other reasons. There are also venues that had a fully isolatable alarm system fitted but the staff that understood it have left. HOWEVER it's their venue like it or lump it! You work WITH the existing management when you hire their venue. Once a place find bookings tailing off THEN they MAY look for reasons and change something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LXbydesign Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 The only thing that annoys me about the whole thing is when you send a tech rider a couple of weeks ahead stating that smoke and/or haze will be used during the show and that the venue to fax back a signed by management agreement of the rider - only for them to turn around on the day and say 'sorry - cant use haze'. I remember one time, involved on a show on a 50/50 split contract, that things got a bit heated between promoter and venue management because said management had signed the Tech Rider but then turned around during load-in and said no smoke or haze. It was quite a scary time while the crew were instructed to stop the fit up until either a resolve was made or the show was being pulled. It all got quite legal and so much so, luckily, the show went ahead WITH smoke and haze. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ynot Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 I do recall comments were made about a venue not too far from me...Their new fire safety system DID have an isolation option over the stage but this wasn't advertised. However, even for those who knew it was available couldn't always get it disabled for shows because the tech manager at the time was often a little resistent to it's use by certain 'companies' (ie some of the am-drams they used to host). I believe it could also depend on how 'friendly' these companies were with said manager - slightest bit of arsiness and the co-operation stopped. Hardly a customer centric view from the management in my honest opinion (and one that certainly contributed to the lack of am-dram there any more!).But it does demonstrate the power of the management... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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