Unions and working in UK

[david.elsbury]

Hi all

Hypothetical question- I'm in New Zealand at the moment but one of my options in the next 2/3 years is to go to the UK to live. If I went, obviously I would want to work there, preferably in a technical/theatre position. So- having been reading about the unions in the USA, on another tech website (link here, if you're interested) I was wondering if I would be able to get work at any venues, without belonging to one? Kinda silly question, I know.

 

Also, could anyone point me in the direction of unions (or equivalent) in New Zealand?

 

Thanks in advance for any insight you can give me

Regards

David

[Paul J Need]

I no longer belong to any union, but I'm if I get this wrong someone from on here will correct me.

 

You will probably need a work visa - so apart from you airfare that's all you need and you can come over here and work for up to 3 years I beleive. It's all to do with the old commonwealth agreements dating way back. Now ask if the same arrangement applies to Brits coming going to Oz or NZ? ;)

[mikienorth]

As long as, from what I understand (my stepdad is kiwi), if your grandparent is english, and born here before 1922 you can come get a visa to work here that lasts for four years, and, as I understand, that is the sole qualifying factor. I can clarify all that better if need be, he's in the attic at the moment. You need to prove this.

Also, if you are under 29, it is apparently pretty easy (he isn't)

if you don't fall into either of the above, apparently you are into a points system like (and I quote) "every other poor bug**r"

(he's just come out the attic)

 

I only joined the union recently. From what I understand you do not have to be a union member and it can be both a good and bad thing.

[david.elsbury]

if your grandparent is english, and born here before 1922 you can come get a visa to work here that lasts for four years, and, as I understand, that is the sole qualifying factor.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

My father is english, so I think that there's a pretty good chance of that.

Also, if you are under 29, it is apparently pretty easy

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm 18. Easy.

 

Thanks to all who have replied so far, this is an interesting topic to see opinions on.

 

David

[Bryson]

You'll find that there isn't anything like the american union system at work here in the UK. There is a union (BECTU) but there's no "closed shop" as such.

 

BECTU are regarded by many in the industry to be interested in Television or West End Theatre and not much else, so many people (my good self included) don't actually belong.

 

IATSE (the US union) I understand to have a powerful stranglehold on the American theatres. While this means extra emplyment and a strong bargaining position for wages, it could be argued that US technicians don't end up with the breadth of experience that UK ones do. Let's put it this way, my employer (an American company) mostly employs British production managers, with a few Canadians and Aussies in the mix too. Only a very few Americans.

 

It's quite interesting really: is having a strong unions actually that good for the workers?

[gareth]

Bryson's hit the nail on the head - the unionisation situation in the States is very different to that which exists in the UK. Over here, BECTU is the main union for people working in the theatre, film and television business, and they function in a different way to IATSE in the USA. In fact, as far as the theatre business is concerned, they're almost the exact opposite - don't bother looking to BECTU to help you find work in the theatre side of the industry, in that respect they're about as much use as a one-legged man in an arse-kicking competition. They're a little better in other sectors (film & TV), in that they circulate vacancy lists, etc. - but even so, they're still little more than an information service and they won't actively assist you in finding employment.

[TeeJay]

I have to add that I always thought that a union was there to support the workforce in standing up for their rights - not as a employment agency.

 

Not that I fully support BECTU mind. Despite being a member, I still find it hard to judge just where their focus actually is. I have a suspicion that these days the areas of employment that they try to cover are too vast for a single union.

 

Anyhoo, before I go too far off-topic, This website will probably be quite helpful.

[mikienorth]

Being out of the west end in a theatre, which has union recognition is an interesting position. That is the position I am in, and, in many respects the heavy power the union wields causes our venue to have a questionable reputation amongst touring crews.

I personally am a member of BECTU as I said above, and am questioning my membership as the union control is being taken advantage of by the union reps. It is not my view that the union are only interested in TV and West End, as very regular conversations between my union reps and their officials take place. Being a union member has its drawbacks along with its benefits, this I have found out since joining in the autumn.

Are any union reps or officials readers of this forum? It would be interesting to hear their opinions relating to both my points and the thoughts of others on this page.

[Stu]

I too am a member of BECTU, and have been since joining the business 'professionally' in 2002. Just to add to the original question, I've never know of a problem of someone in this country not getting work because they aren't a member of the union. Neither have I heard of anything the other way round, for someone to not get work because they are a member of the union.

 

As I am a silent union member (as to say that althought I'm a member, I've never walked round shaking my union stick or publicising the matter), I'd be interested to know if people have ever found themselves in a sticky situation for being a member of a union. Either from the venue they work for (higher management) or from visiting companies. Perhaps even with other members of non-union staff... Has anyone almost felt like they are being victimised or singled out for being a member of a union?

 

I ask this as I'm not really sure if there are any benefits for me being a member of BECTU at this time, and several times in the last 6 months I have pondered over cancelling my membership. I too have noticed that perhaps the industry is getting too big for BECTU, and off late all I read about in BECTU's own magazine and The Stage is how bad people in the TV sector are getting it. I can see why, with the proposed job losses at the BBC and the decline in regional tv from the ITV network, but it's still a point nevertheless.

 

It'd be interesting to hear some other people's opinions.

 

Cheers,

Stu

PS. Yes I know, I am the scrooge of New Year!

[Jivemaster]

Likening the US to the UK is as accurate and offensive as lumping together of Oz NZ and SA because their accents are vaguely similar. Bryson, who is familiar with both US and UK english sometimes has to translate for us.

 

In the US the unions tend to act as - in some ways - the labour pool and a qualifying body.

In Britain the unions don't help you find work or verify your qualifications. Union membership helps, if, when employed, you find an area of disagreement with your employer and need legal advice without paying a solicitor.

[Andrew C]

In Britain the unions don't help you find work or verify your qualifications. Union membership helps, if, when employed, you find an area of disagreement with your employer and need legal advice without paying a solicitor.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They should also be promoting good practice, H&S awareness & the value in ££ of their members to "managment" and the general public. They should be representing their members at national & international levels in all sorts of fora. At least mine does, whether to any effect or not is a moot point. (ATL)

[david.elsbury]

Thankyou for all your replies- it has made interesting reading. Like I may have said, its kind of hypothetical at the moment, but I will bear it in mind if I do go over. ;)

Much appreciated

Regards

David

[Jivemaster]

Prob a good idea to narrow your search onto a small part of the UK and find a contact there. Assuming you pass all the visa (etc) hurdles you need money and accommodation, London has areas where ethnic groups tend to settle and currently Earls Court is the chosen area for Ozzys and Kiwis, ask among your peers and you will find someone who can reccommend a flat share there. Central london is fiendishly expensive but you can walk anywhere you want to go, 2 miles out can be cheaper but the transport costs, 5 miles out and you can find all you need in suburbia, 10 miles out and london is a distant town.