richard_cooper Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 I have been asked, by my employer, to book myself on a course to give me a piece of paper to state that I am trained to use the various power tools that we use. Limited to normal wood working tools, circular saws, jigsaws, routers, mitre saws, planers etc. Could anyone recommend such a course, preferably in the midlands? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigclive Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 Seriously? I didn't even know there were training courses for such things. I wonder if the course covers the use of jigsaws to cut unsupported floppy sheet steel. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 Axminster run loads of courses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Lewis Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 Google produces a proliferation of such courses. All of them play on the requirements of PUWER ("users of work equipment receive adequate training for purposes of health and safety" ). Of course, some tools deserve training courses to ensure proper use and correct PPE (chain saws spring to mind), and some tools historically had specific legislation and guidance that users needed to be aware of (e.g. abrasive wheels regs - now repealed and subsumed within PUWER). There are aspects of noise exposure, hand arm vibration, COSHH, PUWER, PPE etc. that is useful to know, and no doubt gets taught on these training days. What seems bizarre though, is that such information and mentoring apparently cannot be carried out within the workplace and the proof that training has occurred documented. I'm not knocking the courses as such - they're meeting a perceived need. However, I'd rather see someone guided on correct use of a tool on a day to day basis, than send them off for a one off course that just ticks the "this employee is trained" box. Such health and safety regimes appear to put more emphasis on getting the paper based safety audit looking good, than actually improving safety at work. If there's an accident, I'm sure the managers will breath a sigh of relief that everyone was "trained" so they have discharged their responsibility... PS... there's a wry comment in the HSE abrasive wheels guidance..."There is no substitute for thorough practical training in all aspects of the mounting and use of abrasive wheels. Any training programme should cover ....." (long list of good practice)"Training courses are offered by many organisations which usually provide a certificate of attendance, not competence" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 Surely this is exactly the responsibility that the most senior employee should have. Somebody who knows, and passes the skills onto somebody else. If the senior people or the specialists don't feel they can train other people, then they're not really worth paying the extra salary to, are they? If I was the person who'd been using these tools, safely, for years then if I didn't consider myself competent, that's a bit sad. Most skilled people are prod to pass their skills on - they spent years building them, to find they's not considered 'trained' is an insult. If an accident did happen, and God forbid, you were in front of a Judge. I'd bet quite a bit that the Judge would put more emphasis on your opinion, than that of a person from the firm who is selling you the equipment, or only been training people on this for a short time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sully Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 My employer or another FE college perhaps? As given this sounds like a box ticking exercise but training in the workplace does have the disadvantage of teaching "how it's done here" which might include some bad habits, bringing in a good external trainer or doing a training course externally could have some value greater than just box ticking. On Channel 4 a while back there was a "Whacky" Health and Safety programme that had an inspector doing a site visit to somewhere that had a table router that didn't have any sort of guard or rest on it which he was trying to persuade them wasn't safe which they were rebutting with "No-one's lost a finger up till now", if this is ingrained in a workplace how is "on the job" training keeping you safe? David. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Lewis Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 As usual, the HSE have some sage advice to offer. Workplace based training definitely has its place - as does external training or even educational courses. The trick is knowing which to apply, and not relying on just one for every situation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the kid Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 I know my local council was running some courses, inc ladder use etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew C Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 To pick up on a few points;-On the job training - What if you are the one who is supposed to know what he is doing (years of practice, but no paperwork) and your superiors don't even know what you do?Box ticking - I've just been subjected to several days of box ticking covering the tools and machinery in the Design & Tech workshops. Aimed at D&T teachers, it was useful overall, but by your deity was it ever dull! This was all kicked off by an experienced technician, who knew full well not to, reaching over the over-hand planer to make an adjustment before it ran down... OUCH!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_cooper Posted May 31, 2011 Author Share Posted May 31, 2011 On the job training - What if you are the one who is supposed to know what he is doing (years of practice, but no paperwork) and your superiors don't even know what you do? Nail hit firmly on the head! That's exactly the position I am in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew C Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Nail hit firmly on the head! That's exactly the position I am in.Oi! Have you got a ticket for that hammer?! ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimWebber Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 I have been asked, by my employer, to book myself on a course to give me a piece of paper to state that I am trained to use the various power tools that we use.... Seriously? I didn't even know there were training courses for such things... No, me neither... That was why I worked alongside experienced people who told me not to touch the spinny round bits. Google produces a proliferation of such courses. All of them play on the requirements of PUWER ("users of work equipment receive adequate training for purposes of health and safety" ). Of course, some tools deserve training courses to ensure proper use and correct PPE (chain saws spring to mind), and some tools historically had specific legislation and guidance that users needed to be aware of (e.g. abrasive wheels regs - now repealed and subsumed within PUWER). There are aspects of noise exposure, hand arm vibration, COSHH, PUWER, PPE etc. that is useful to know, and no doubt gets taught on these training days. What seems bizarre though, is that such information and mentoring apparently cannot be carried out within the workplace and the proof that training has occurred documented. Simon, Another nail hit squarely on the non-pointed end! Two in one thread... :) Surely this is exactly the responsibility that the most senior employee should have. Somebody who knows, and passes the skills onto somebody else. If the senior people or the specialists don't feel they can train other people, then they're not really worth paying the extra salary to, are they? If I was the person who'd been using these tools, safely, for years then if I didn't consider myself competent, that's a bit sad. Most skilled people are prod to pass their skills on - they spent years building them, to find they's not considered 'trained' is an insult. If an accident did happen, and God forbid, you were in front of a Judge. I'd bet quite a bit that the Judge would put more emphasis on your opinion, than that of a person from the firm who is selling you the equipment, or only been training people on this for a short time. Paul, and yet another head... However, I think that your hypothetical Judge is touching on the underlying problem. Cynic Alert time. I can't help but wondering how much of the OPs dilemma is that all the while the employee is trained by somebody else, as much responsibility as possible is nicely shifted to a third party when Injury Lawyers 4 U dot com come calling at the door? As Simon alludes to... ....I'm sure the managers will breath a sigh of relief that everyone was "trained" so they have discharged their responsibility... .....This was all kicked off by an experienced technician, who knew full well not to, reaching over the over-hand planer to make an adjustment before it ran down... OUCH!!! I can see the scenario now Andrew... I am sure, that if we are honest with ourselves, we are all capable of carrying out such a bloody foolish, stupid mistake at some time... It only takes a second for concentration to slip amongst any of us. Combine that with a dose of bad luck, and there we are, one finger less then we started with.... I think the true test of character is whether the injured person puts his hand up (Well, what is left of it) and says "Oh wow, how stupid was I?" Or whether he uses his remaining fingers to dial up the aforementioned lawyers, to complain that nobody gave him a written exam not to touch the spinny round bit while it was still spinning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_cooper Posted May 31, 2011 Author Share Posted May 31, 2011 Shhh! Sorry, I should have said you've focused the correct lantern, after all I "know about that stuff".....? When did we get to the point that I'm not 100% sure that this was a joke anymore? Seriously as much as I agree with most of the opinions given here, I've wasted enough time talking about this, and want to find a course that will tick as many boxes as possible in the shortest time. My concern is, concede this battle, and what's next? Paul, you've summed up my feelings exactly. 7 years doing this for my current employer alone. Axminster don't have any current courses in their calendar that seem to fit the bill. Simon, how are you searching? All I seem to turn up is woodworking courses aimed more at, for instance, furniture construction rather than safety. I probably being dense and not using a sensible search! Thanks all so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew C Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 I think the true test of character is whether the injured person puts his hand up (Well, what is left of it) and says "Oh wow, how stupid was I?" More in the tune of "Haven't I been a ******* stupid ****, has anyone seen the tip of my finger? " 'k me that smarts!" Fortunately, it was just the tip of his finger, and by the wonder that is the NHS (on a good day) it has been put back together and whilst not as good as new, it works. The blood splatter has been left on the tool as a very pointed reminder. Back on topic; our local agricultural college do quite a lot of this type of training. Sorry, they used to. Still got some, but not really what you need. You could try Morton Morrell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Lewis Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Simon, how are you searching? All I seem to turn up is woodworking courses aimed more at, for instance, furniture construction rather than safety. I tried "power tool safety training" - I suspect you need to use more of the "safety" & "training" phrases - then you should get a rash of service providers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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