paulears Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 Transmitter - no amount of button prodding works, the others are fine - just dead on arrival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Beech Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 So what we're saying is that out of the units discussed in this thread, over 20% are DOA, and many more issues besides. Unfortunately I think that lots of views may have been changed significantly in the last few weeks. We have heard many good reports about these to start with and whilst not suitable for myself due to my clients being more interested in the badge rather than the performance, they appeared to be getting good reviews. I've certainly heard good reports about the guitar pack versions and such. However things appear to have taken a turn for the worse. The lack of knowledge when phoning them is a bit worrying, though it appears that support is available and it's a good thing to have a representative from the company on board here. I do hope that the issues are merely teething issues and can be sorted out efficiently. I'm not sure about the Wifi bit though. To say that Wifi isn't a very robust technology and pointing the blame towards it seems a bit like designing an amplifier that turned out to be, not very good and saying. Yes, but you know it would be better if we ran it on 300v instead of 230v, blaming an item that has been around for some time and is fairly set in its ways so to speak. I do appreciate that the fact is indeed correct, but perhaps the solution isn't as well thought out. I haven't tried any yet, I'd like to, to see what they are like, its possible that if they were reliable enough I could have 30 or so channels of this and 30 or so channels of G3 for the jobs where the badge matters, sadly nobody is prepared to let me have a couple of channels to try on gigs, and I'm not prepared to buy a couple of try them for a couple of reasons, 1 is, if I don't get on with them, I'm stuck with them, as less people will want to buy them, especially as I wouldn't sell them if they were suitable, and secondly, there's a greater than 1 in 5 chance 1 wouldn't work. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolyPhish Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 On a purely artist based note.... I had the opportunity to handle a couple of the Handhelds (Apologies for not know the model, I literally passed them from one person to another) and I found them difficult to hold. I've worked with Shure, Sennheiser and Audio Techinca radio gear of all levels and I have NEVER held a Microphone which didn't feel secure in my hand. I think it is mainly down to the diameter of the 'barrel' but it just didn't 'sit right'. Sorry that I have no technical report but I felt it might be worth raising the point... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 They feel to me balanced quite well, and are quite weighty in the hand. The battery compartment isn't too tricky to use - and sound wise, the alternate mic models do have a similar sound to the ones they've modeled - apart from they're all the same pickup pattern. I've been too busy to do any serious testing - but three handhelds I left turned on to check the battery life stopped my laptop stone dead - nice happy displays on the radios, no access to the internet from the laptop. They're going to just refund me on the faulty one, and leave it to me to re-order if I want, but I think I might make do with the three for the moment and buy some G3s. I also started to rack them up and I've got them stuck. If I want to remove one, I've no idea how to do it - the linking strip took all my 14 stones to insert, and I can't think of any way to get it out without damaging the receivers. The strip is a good idea - just too tight! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shez Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 I also started to rack them up and I've got them stuck. If I want to remove one, I've no idea how to do it - the linking strip took all my 14 stones to insert, and I can't think of any way to get it out without damaging the receivers. The strip is a good idea - just too tight!Been there, have the dents in the case to show for it... I stopped short of pushing it all the way in as I realised I'd never get them apart again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbuckley Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Both these mics, and WiFi, and lots of other things (including microwave ovens) operate in the 2.4GHz band. This band is classed as ISM - Industrial, scientific, and medical, and was never really intended for devices to communicate, its a place to go where leakage is acceptable as there is no-one in the band who listens and/or cares. Recent developments have changed that, but there is no culpability on anyone or anything that wipes out reception in ISM. Its to be fully expected. The fact it works as well as it does is the surprise... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbsy Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 Hmmmm...just had a thought. Anybody know if I'm right in thinking that the 2.4GHz band is actually 2.4-2.5GHz? If so, this is 100MHz bandwidth. Using conventional technology, we frequently get 12-14 FM radio microphone channels in a standard 8MHz TV channel while Line6 get 12 channels in 100MHz bandwidth using their Frequency Hopping Spread Spectrum technology. I suspect this explains why their signal is relatively robust and also why they trample on Wifi--basically they are being very inefficient in their use of bandwidth. Since bandwidth is a dwindling resource, I wonder how sustainable systems like this are in the long terms? Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dboomer Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 There are only so many cars you can drive down a highway at the same time. Older technologies like Wi-Fi typically just start slowing down when they receive interference. Wi-Fi never had much expectation of being a realtime system anyway. You'd better be very close to realtime for a microphone to be good for musical performances. It may seem that we are only using 12 channels ... but in fact we are using 48 in the band for reliability AND to be able to operate in the midst of a lot of congestion Since the XD-V wireless system is digital, it is able to “intelligently” ignore all signals that are not specifically intended for it. As a result, no audible interference can be generated due to other RF signals occurring simultaneously with the XD-V RF signals. Additionally, the XD-V system utilizes a frequency diversity system in which four different RF frequencies are transmitted for each single audio channel. . Only if there are errors or loss of signal on all four RF frequencies within a single transmission packet will an XD-V system mute. Loss of RF signal can be the result of trying to function at too great a distance, having unintentional transmitters too close to a receiver (near/far), or a significant amount of close-by RF signals within the same 2.4GHz range (Wi-Fi, microwave ovens, etc.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boswell Posted April 1, 2011 Author Share Posted April 1, 2011 I also started to rack them up and I've got them stuck. If I want to remove one, I've no idea how to do it - the linking strip took all my 14 stones to insert, and I can't think of any way to get it out without damaging the receivers. The strip is a good idea - just too tight! The way I did it was to smear Silicon lubricant on all surfaces then put them in a 'Workmate' and wind them in.No problems, went in easy but you won't get them out. The systems I sent back originally had to go back in pairs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Beech Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 The issue is that whilst initially Wifi never expected to be used as it is, the fact remains that it IS, and has been since before development of these products. I don't think that the Wifi interference thing is a major issue, but it IS helpful to know about it, and I guess the guys at Line6 are happy that people are using these products in the "real world" and being able to make up their own minds. Let me use a simple example. We have a conference style setup, with a lecturn with a laptop stand on it. We have say half a dozen people who speak on a particular topic. These people do some walking around a "stage" too so the most efficient way is to use a tie clip or headset mic. Maybe they are commenting upon something that is on a power point presentation, this as a rule won't require the use of the internet, however some things MIGHT. Perhaps they are discussing real time data streaming in from external sources. We could argue that someone else could deal with this off the stage, and this is true, but this may not be how they have been doing it for the last few years. Even if it's a power point presentation that requires no internet connection, the increased beeps and pops and pop up messages saying connection has been lost, connection is back on, now it's off, no, it's back again, could interrupt some software making it unusable. Again, we could argue that they should turn the Wifi off when not using it, but why make them change something they have been happily doing for some time. You wouldn't take your wife out to see and Abba tribute, get to the theatre and realise you got the wrong night and what you're actually there to see is a bloke reciting various poems by Dylan Thomas. You'd probably have very little luck if you went up and asked him to put on a pair of flares and sing Dancing queen. This sudden influx of problems hasn't put me off wanting to try them and possibly purchase some though. I don't remember many getting it perfect first time. The main problem is, it's not Sennheiser and Shure's first time, which seems to make any problems, small as they may be with "first timers" kit much more off putting. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 I've had a chance to try them out into a proper system this morning and results are encouraging and slightly odd. As Rob mentioned the wifi - I've discovered some handy info. I can sit with a mic right next to this laptop and wi-fi is unaffected. Put the mics near the router and wi-fi clogs up and distant wif-fi devices drop off the network. No idea why, but I'm not having any problems with this rather 'troublesome' laptop. I fired the mics up into a pair of floor monitors, and ran them up to the typical volume I run monitors at for comedians, comperes, singers etc - NOT rock and roll. Range wise - as long as you don't leave another hand-held on the receiver rack (which wipes out the distant ones) I had no issue with range - even with the aerials disconnected. Sounded fine. Next job, test if the capsule fitted has a similar response pattern to the mics it aims to simulate. I dropped the mic and pointed it towards the monitor to see if I'd get a high pitched shreak or a low honk. I got neither. I check the mic, it was loud, aimed it at the monitor and moved it closer. Silence until suddenly, with no warning a full system level scream, which stopped as soon as I moved the mic away - again, instantly. I can only assume it's the small 4ms latency the system has. This could be tricky. It means the usual 'hollow' warning sound is totally absent, so the op is going to have to use visual clues by watching the performer closely, rather than listening - when feedback happens, it's loud and very nasty. I've no way of telling if the distortion I was hearing was coming from the PA or the radio system - it had to stop, immediately! The latency gives you quite a bit of extra headroom and it would be very easy to push it, and then have no time to react. The latency isn't noticeable in terms of delay. I had a 58, a Beta 58 and a Sennheiser 835 in the mic box - so I tested those against the simulations. The 58 simulation is a little duller than a brand new 58, but sounds pretty much the same as an older more abused one. The 835 has the slight brightness increase that the real 835 has over the 58 - but for me the clear winner is the Beta58 - couldn't tell the difference, and the off-axis response is quite similar - on the 58 and 835 the Line 6 element is a little different sounding as you go off-mic. This is the one I'll be using, I suspect - the Beta 58 setting - as it sounds and functions pretty much as the cabled one. The battery meter is a bit unreliable - 8 hours down to 7 hours took 30mins, then it stayed around 4 hours for an hour and a half (all this on the supplied batteries of doubtful quality - not tried good ones yet). I was surprised when I suddenly gained an hour - 3:20 suddenly increased up to 4:20? weird! So I'm very happy with the sound - and it's got less background noise than the Sennheisers it's replaced. There seems no need for any gain adjustment - the dynamic range seems to cope with shouts and distant instrument miking - cannot argue with that. I'm not sure how we'll cope with the lack of feedback warning - but it might even be a bonus - time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boswell Posted April 1, 2011 Author Share Posted April 1, 2011 IThe battery meter is a bit unreliable - 8 hours down to 7 hours took 30mins, then it stayed around 4 hours for an hour and a half (all this on the supplied batteries of doubtful quality - not tried good ones yet). I was surprised when I suddenly gained an hour - 3:20 suddenly increased up to 4:20? weird! Paul, did you turn the mic off at any time? The batt life is calculated from battery terminal voltage, if you turn off, the voltage recovers slightly and then when you turn back on you get an elevated run time for a period until the batt discharges back down to its original value before you turned off.The batt life curve is based on alkaline batteries, the ones supplied to me with the kit were GP and they are the ones I normally use from CPC.Sorry if Grandmothers & sucking eggs applies :D The feedback is a point I never noticed when using the beltpacks, Only now you have mentioned it, I can't remember ever having feedback on these mics. Now I know, I'll try and induce it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 On the battery front, no - I left them on, just that they seemed to go down, then back up, then down again. Not important. The feedback 'feature' could be quite useful in some circumstances, just than when it goes, it REALLY goes! If it helps anyone - I bought these from Thomann, and the price was pretty good, and they're sending me out another, and I got a Parcelforce post paid label emailed for the return - can't complain about their service at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shez Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 If it helps anyone - I bought these from Thomann, and the price was pretty good, and they're sending me out another, and I got a Parcelforce post paid label emailed for the return - can't complain about their service at all.Did they come with UK plugs? The leads are an interesting combination of wall wart & carpet carbuncle... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boswell Posted April 1, 2011 Author Share Posted April 1, 2011 Did they come with UK plugs? The leads are an interesting combination of wall wart & carpet carbuncle... All mine came with UK 13A Wall Warts, but I didn't get them from Thomann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.