Guys & Dolls Set - HELP!

[Aaron-Hill07]

Evening Ladies & Gentleman,

 

I'm working on Guys & Dolls in a local theatre in December and am working as Technical Director for the performance. The theatre group in question is ameteur, and the cast is all under 18s. There really is no budget really at all for set, so being creative with not a lot at all is the only way it can go!

 

So, I am asking you lovely lot if you have any G&D Set sat in storage etc that I would be able to borrow/hire cheaply for two weeks beginning 2nd December 2010. We need set for the whole show, every scene so anything would be really helpful!

 

If you have anything, or know anyone that does.. that'd be amazing!

 

Please get in touch ASAP as I'm trying to tie lose ends as soon as I can,

 

Thanks a lot in advance,

Aaron

[Ynot]

Well, as ever, the short answer is pretty likely to be a big fat NO. Sorry.

 

It always amazes me that there are still small companies out there who decide to 'put on a show' but have absolutely NO idea how to budget properly for what they actually NEED to expend upon to get that show on the stage!!

 

Aaron, just sit down with the creative team and talk about how they WANT to see this production. If they want scenery to depict the locations involved then they will have to buy, rent or make the stuff. Borrowing, I'm afraid, (unless you're REALLY lucky) is highly unlikely.

 

Once you have the answer what they WANT, you then go out and trawl the usual suspects to see how much the hire or build of the sets is going to cost you. Once you have a ballpark figure you go back to the creatives and talk about how this fits in with the venue hire, costumes, lighting etc etc. THEN it's their decision as to how the budgets will be split with regard to the level of ticket sales (and costs thereof) - if the books don't balance then THEY have to decide what must be cut or played down.

 

I really do despair at all the stories where the posters say "We have NO budget to do 'X' at all" - if the creatives want it they have to figure how to pay for it or it doesn't happen.

 

Simples.

[Aaron-Hill07]

Your frustration is the same as mine I can promise you that much! I've been doing work with the same performance group (who're actually a charity!) for a couple of years or so, and have now got a bit more involved in pre-production.

 

I have said, it's all going to come down to budget at the end of the day.. but unfortunately there really isn't much of a budget at all. I know it was a long-shot trying to get free scenery, but have seen it done in the past and being quite a popular show, I thought the chances of being able to get some bits and pieces were possibly reasonable!

 

I am still looking through pages of Google, and my phone-book to talk to old friends and colleagues to try to beg/borrow/steal bits and pieces and dragging in favours from people.. so hopefully a bit more searching will get me somewhere!

 

Thanks for your input Ynot, and trust me.. I agree with everything you've just said!

 

Ta,

Aaron

[OllieH]

Your frustration is the same as mine I can promise you that much! I've been doing work with the same performance group (who're actually a charity!) for a couple of years or so, and have now got a bit more involved in pre-production.

 

I have said, it's all going to come down to budget at the end of the day.. but unfortunately there really isn't much of a budget at all. I know it was a long-shot trying to get free scenery, but have seen it done in the past and being quite a popular show, I thought the chances of being able to get some bits and pieces were possibly reasonable!

 

I am still looking through pages of Google, and my phone-book to talk to old friends and colleagues to try to beg/borrow/steal bits and pieces and dragging in favours from people.. so hopefully a bit more searching will get me somewhere!

 

Thanks for your input Ynot, and trust me.. I agree with everything you've just said!

 

Ta,

Aaron

 

You say you agree, but I don't think you've listened. Let's do some maths.

 

(No. of audience x ticket price) + revenue from programme sales + advertising = production revenue

 

Production revenue - production budget (wardrobe, sound & lighting, scenery) - any additional costs = profit/loss

 

This is taking into account a typical amateur environment.

 

I understand that the production company may not have a pot of gold that they've earnt from other productions. However, this does not mean there is not money available. The money taken once the curtains come down should not be seen as real profit with no expenses against it. You have to equate for how much the production will make and THEN look at how sizeable your budget is.

[Aaron-Hill07]

No, I do agree.

 

We've worked out how much revenue we should be taking, and have worked out budgets from that but the size of the venue etc means that we really don't have much of a budget for technical in general. Lighting is in house, Sound is hired in which is where a lot of the costs go and set needs to be built/hired.

 

After the maths, there still is no money.

[david.elsbury]

Still no money? Guess it's an easy outcome then, from the old "pick 2 - good, fast, cheap".

Sorry to be a downer but it really sounds like they need to be realistic.

[w/robe]

I know it is probably too late but why pick a show with big set and costume requirements when there is no money?

Never mind that it is a show about strippers, drunks and gamblers for under 18s.

[Ynot]

We've worked out how much revenue we should be taking, and have worked out budgets from that but the size of the venue etc means that we really don't have much of a budget for technical in general. Lighting is in house, Sound is hired in which is where a lot of the costs go and set needs to be built/hired.

 

After the maths, there still is no money.

In which case, your maths is seriously flawed.

If the budget is worked out on a basic ticket price of 'X' which means that some key production elements cannot be covered, then you have a couple of choices.

Reset the tickets to 'X' plus £1 or plus £1.50 and work out the projected additional income based on the same box office sales, then see if that raises enough to cover scenery costs.

OR use the cast/crew in advance to do some fund raising - wash cars, pack bags at Asda/Sainsbury/Tesco etc, or some such.

Or a combo of both, and/or other ideas...

[GridGirl]

A local school did a production of G&D a couple of years ago and got by with almost no set. What they used was 4 double-sided flats on wheeled bases; all four had a New York skyline on one side, then two had something to represent the Mission and two something to represent the Hot Box. For Havana and the sewer scenes, they simply cleared all four flats and used lighting to represent the rest - the classic Les Mis grating gobo is perfect for the sewer, and all you really need for Havana is some brightly coloured lighting. They had some tables and chairs, and really that was about it. If the group has been established for a while, chances are they'll have some old flats kicking around somewhere, and it isn't expensive to repaint them and put wheels on the bases; dress the crew as crapshooters and have them move the flats as part of the show and you'll get away with it. Good luck - I love G&D!

[Andrew Edwards]

going OT

 

Surely a budget for a show should be based upon the profit from the last one, not the expected revenue from the current. What happens if you don't get the turnout or have to pull it. Refunding all the ticket money and then having to pay your creditors is the definition of bankruptcy.

 

If you are paying your bills from the revenue from the current show this is tantamount to 'trading whilst insolvent'. You should always have cash in hand from a good business point of view let alone the legality of operating this way.

 

In the current climate, I have seen many amdrams opting to make their own sets or scale back as their pot of cash dwindles. You can always try to build it back up again and then go back to hiring again.

 

What gridgirl said is a great option. If there isn't anyone with the ability then try and find some local tradespeople to join your group/society. Many of the ones I know have carpenters and/or joiners as part of their crew.

 

I do find it interesting that theatre has this thing where a bunch of people with no formal training decide to put on a show. You wouldn't get a group of random people decide to undertake a major construction project in the evenings and weekends for hobby. The skill set is almost identical...

Don't get me wrong I am all for people being able to do this, I just wish that it's thought through more and at least one person had some idea of the safe methodology. I love it for people to get involved but even after much dialogue, I frequently get sprung with something I have to say no to purely because it is far too late to do it properly.

[James]

I lit a production of G&D Jr recently for the local Junior Operatic Soc. (4 night run)

 

They wanted to put the show on without any set at all beccause they had no time / money / budget.

 

I didnt' like the idea of lighting the show in front of nothing but the house greys so put together a simple and effective set design that was adaptable and practical. Two of us built the set over a couple of evenings and even so (just with materials) it came to about £300.

 

For that we had

- Broadway

- Broadway back streets

- Mission Hall

- Hot box

- Havannah

 

Good Luck.

 

 

James.

[paulears]

Gridgirls 100% on the mark. No way can you do a proper scenery show with no budget - you've also forgotten to factor in transport costs. Even if you get a freebie, transport costs are not exactly cheap.

 

One of the common mistakes new, keen amateur companies have is assuming that the art is everything and the physical things are just peripheral and sort of will happen. The point made above about the preceeding production making the working capital for the next are important - you can't run a company without a bank balance - and like this production, you will commit to certain expense, even if the show bombs!

 

Do you have a proper constitution to make it clear who is responsible for debts. At worst, you could all be liable for any loss. Many amateur organisations who exist because of love fail when their first show loses money and everyone gives up because they all have to put their hands in their pockets - sometimes for hundreds of pounds. I've had many students over the years set them up, and hardly any lasted, not because of talent, but because of business acumen. Have you got anyone in the group who is a business experienced person? Finding somebody like this really helps. One of the local big amateur organisations near me always have somebody like this on the committee, often as chairman. They may no bugger-all about theatre, but they know business!

[dbuckley]

One of the common mistakes new, keen amateur companies have is assuming that the art is everything and the physical things are just peripheral and sort of will happen.

Having done this for a fair while now, I'd say art is nothing, and production, logistics, financial sense and management is everything.

 

A bunch of folks can put on one show by flying by the seat of the pants, and begging, borrowing and stealing, but you can't sustain an amdram group like that.

 

I say "art is nothing" because a well run producing amdram society with a reputation can find the art in the form of directors and actors. These are (in the amdram world) the people who believe theatre happens "by magic".

[Ali2580]

Aaron,

 

The chances are, which have been said already, that you won't get many replies. Put it this way - XYZ Amateur Company will tend to hire a set (Scenic Projects, Borders etc.) and/or build their own. If they build their own set for it, most (I say most as not everybody will do it this way!) will think well we aren't putting on G&D again anytime soon so we will just paint over our flats/dismantle or change them. As Ynot & Ollie H mentioned, use the production meetings (assuming you have some) to discuss what they want it to look like, budgets (if any) and then contact the usual set companies and/or people but borrowing may be a struggle. Would you lend your own set to people if it took you a lot to build?

 

As for budgets, I tend to work with a local charity that put on major productions now. They started off small with minimal set, small venue and sold very well. A few years later they were producing shows such as WWRY, West Side Story, Les Mis, with hired set, lighting, sound and major budgets and they still sell tickets extremely well. Set, lighting and sound just doesn't appear from nowhere and if you want the big fancy stuff, you've got to pay for it! After all, how do you expect Jimmy's Lighting & Sound to make money?

 

2p.

[simonwest]

I work with a scenery company and get these kinds of requests all the time.

 

Most companies, including the one I work with, will do their best to support amateur and community groups to the best of their ability.

 

As previously mentioned, transportation is a huge factor to consider with sets, as most (including the guys and dolls set we cart around) wont fit in anything smaller than an artic thats at least 25ft.

 

The advice here is there are companies out there that will support growing theatre groups and help out as much as they can. But you have to give them something realistic to work with.

 

Most community theatre groups I know who don't hire set tend to build. But, as said before, you need to know what is wanted from the Director / production manager.

 

To me, I read it was someone has had a great idea with a need for an end result. Without putting the pieces in the middle together.

 

Theres help out there if you know what you want and can give a realistic budget for the outcome.

 

BTW, if all the budget is going to sound.... does that mean sound had the priority in terms of costing over set?

 

Si