Venue requiring an indemnity

[Pete Alcock]

Here's a connundrum. I'm booked to provide a PA plus some lights for a event at a country hotel soon - the basis of a disco, though someone else is providing and playing the music. Unusually, the hotel has asked to see a copy of my public liability insurance, which they require to be for £5m cover(!). As I occasionally put up gear on Bournemouth Council's land, I already have this in place.

 

Even more unusually though, the hotel requires me to sign a statement "indemnifying the hotel for any injury or damage howsoever caused, as a consequence of the entertainment". Now I have a distinct aversion to indemnities of any sort, given their open-ended nature, and am having to take advice on this. The question is simply has anyone else come across this in a hotel or indeed any similar venue? I'd have thought the PL insurance would have given the venue adequate protection against a claim should anything go horribly wrong.

 

Pete.

[paulears]

An indemnity against you doing something is one thing, but you are NOT providing the entertainment, and more critically, probably have no control over those who are!

 

They've probably had bad experiences of people (DJs, maybe?) inciting the crowd to do daft things. This is not your problem. Providing safe equipment and competent operators presumably is - for which you already have insurance in place. As this wasn't in your contract, I'd point out they'll still be getting the invoice, so it's up to them.

[Stan Hope-Streeter]

Even more unusually though, the hotel requires me to sign a statement "indemnifying the hotel for any injury or damage howsoever caused, as a consequence of the entertainment". Now I have a distinct aversion to indemnities of any sort, given their open-ended nature, and am having to take advice on this. The question is simply has anyone else come across this in a hotel or indeed any similar venue? I'd have thought the PL insurance would have given the venue adequate protection against a claim should anything go horribly wrong.Pete.

 

No I haven't . But you should ask your insurers what they think of this, they will probably tell you to run a mile.

And I wouldn't be surprised if signing that indemnity would invalidate your insurance anyway. You would be taking on liabilities far in excess of what they have covered you for.

[Brian]

Ask the hotel to sign a similar document indemnifying you against all claims arising as a result for any acts or omissions by the hotel, its staff or its agents.

[paulears]

Seriously, for a moment. When we negotiate our prices, things like this could be incorporated, but it seems unreasonable to throw this in at the last minute. If it didn't form part of any written or verbal agreement, I suppose it's unenforceable, but still not something to ensure repeat business.

[mac.calder]

It is not unusual (in Australia at least) for sub-contracted labor (those who invoice for their time, as opposed to casual employee's who are payed through payroll) to be required to have $10m PLI (as PLI does not extend to sub-contractors). This is just considered a fact of life. Rates are adjusted accordingly to cover these sorts of expenses.

 

IANAL - however I believe that you can only indemnify the hotel for works you carried out or sub-contracted out. Unless you arranged for the entertainers and are paying their bills (on billing to the client etc) or have a contract stating that you are in charge of the 'talent' from your mutual employers, then any damage caused by the 'talent' is the responsibility of the 'talent', the client who hired the 'talent' and the hotel who gave the go-ahead for the 'talent' to perform. No piece of paper can make you take responsibility for the actions of another company that you had no authority over...

 

If you want the work and are really worried about the bit of paper they want you to sign, maybe you should get the advice of a lawyer, and see what they believe you are actually agreeing to be liable if that section of the contract were to be enforced.

[WiLL]

£5m is a standard amount for PLI and will actually only cost you around £50-£80 for a single day. This isn't surprising, however the indemnity should only cover your equipment and it's electrical safety. Make sure there is a clause to ensure that you cannot indemnify against how it is used, as you aren't doing so. The hotel cannot expect you to provide indemnity for the whole event and shouldn't expect it, if for instance their fire suppression/detection equipment isn't up to scratch and people are injured as a result, that will clearly be their fault.

[Jivemaster]

I very much doubt that your insurance covers you for the actions of the "talent" unles you are both part of the same business entity -company, not agency!

 

I'd certainly take professional advice on this one, from your solicitor and or your insurer.

[pete10uk]

From what you have said it appears that you are like myself a hire company and on this occasion suppling equipment on a supply and install basis.

 

We run with 2m PLI on the basis if we need to increase it for a specific client/booking we will. Over the past 10 years in business, we have only had to increase it on one occasion, and that was because of a venue specifying 10m cover.

 

As far as signing an indemnity for the hotel, I would point blank refuse to do so, as this would prejudice your insurance and probably invalidate it. (Our motor insurance small print has a clause stating that you must not admit liability for an accident as this will affect your policy)

 

If your equipment is well maintained and "PAT Tested" and you have insured or instructed the hirers have the proper knowledge / skills to operate it correctly, and you have insurance in place, then you have done all you can as a responsible equipment provider.

 

I woud bet that it is someone in the hotel being a bit to H&S keen and if you were to chat with them and demonstrate you are a responsible Hire company then this would suddenly become acceptable. I have come across it in the past where venues are trying to scare you or the client off and instead hiring the equipment off their preferred supplier.

[Pete Alcock]

Thanks all for your considered and sensible replies. I contacted my broker, who went to the insurer and confirmed there was, in this instance, no problem in my signing the hotel's form. I was surprised too, but they concluded there was nothing that materially increased the liability.

 

I've taken all reasonable steps, so on we go.

 

Pete.

[Boltonguy]

Ok, I work as a corporate insurance broker. Basically a company can ask you to sign any form. But at the end of the day, you have to be legally liable in the event of a claim. This basically means that there has to be negligence on your part which resulted in the incident/claim. If they cant prove negligence then they cant claim against you full stop.

 

A lot of forms that companies get people to sign are not worth the paper they are written on.

 

At the end of the day, if you are negligent, they can claim against you. If you are not negligent then they cannot make a claim against you.

 

Hope this helps.