Humey Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 Next year we are putting on a performance of Caberet for as the School show. After talks with the director I am looking into buying a flat screen TV for use on night. The band will be right at the back of the theatre, the conductor with his back to the audience. The director has spoke about have a camera filming the conductor and feeding that live stream to a TV facing the actors. The TV will be up on the balcony, behind the audience... We also need to purchase the TV and mount it onto balcony fascia.. Is this the easiest way to do it? I have no experience with working on musicals so my background is a disadvantage..does anyone have any suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 Ignoring the fact that having the band _behind_ the audience is going to give you some bizarre audio challenges :-) Rather than having a big monitor behind the audience, how about having some small monitors (say 15" or thereabouts) mounted in wedges at the front of the stage, just like monitor speakers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete McCrea Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 You might find hire a more cost effective solution. If the screen is at the rear of the auditorium, then a decent sized monitor would be required. A 42" plasma would cost you about £400 to buy then the cost of the bracket and necessary cables, or £117 to rent for 1 day. You'll then also need the camera etc to make it all work. Best bet is to explain the details to a local AV company or two, and get them to price it up for you. You can then compare the bits that they have quoted for you, and see what the purchase price comes to. If it's a week run, then it might be about the same price as buying the kit, but it might still be significantly cheaper to hire. Bear in mind too that the rental to should give you a working system, whereas buying the components then puts the onus on you to make a working system out of the bits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the kid Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 I would see about fitting some old TV's in the set like Paul says. You are in a school I can almost guarantee you will have at least 1 old tv. I know I have a load floating about. all CRT. The other option as Paul says is some little 15inchers in wedges. We bought a great 12inch in car "tv" off ebay for £20 because the aerial didn't work, its not used a a relay screen for our jib arm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivemaster Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 I've seen small flat screen monitors in wedges before, it works well. I've never heard of putting the orchestra behind the audience. How far is it that the cast need a monitor to watch the conductor who will actually be there in view, if it's far enough that the cast can't see the conductor then it's far enough that there will be delays due to distance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humey Posted July 7, 2010 Author Share Posted July 7, 2010 Sorry...in my haste I don't think I explained it properly. The orchestra will be behind the actors, opposing side to the audience. The monitors in the wedge is a good idea. Its not a question of delay due to distance, its more of the case that the director doesn't want the actors to turn to see the cue.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivemaster Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 Ah Ha! Seen that much more often, and it works well. Cheap security camera pointing at the conductor and flatscreen monitors in monitor wedges with all the school's spare tvs in the wings etc. A camera will feed a monitor or two, after that another camera or a video disribution amplifier. Putting something behind the audience will not go un noticed and may form a distraction for the audience. Several people will sell you a camera some with IR LED assistance for dark times. IF the school has a CCTV security system, ask the instalation company or the service engineers if they have any cameras in the scrap bin in the workshop. I picked up one that way, the auto lens had failed so a new camera was fitted, with a replacement lens the camera is superb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 Ah Ha! Seen that much more often, and it works well. Cheap security camera pointing at the conductor and flatscreen monitors in monitor wedges with all the school's spare tvs in the wings etc. Yes, that's far more realistic. Note that you may have to put in a second relay to allow the MD to see the cast, if the MD is behind them, facing away. Otherwise the MD will turn round to see the cast, and the cast relay will see the back of the MD's head. I did something vaguely similar in a school a few weeks ago (it was putting in a backstage video relay) and found something very surprising - they had no tellys! In the dark ages when I was at school, there were big TVs on wheeled stands in many classrooms. It's a new school - the biggest in the county - and has been open for about 3 years. Every classroom has smartboards and projection facilties, but there were no moveable TVs to use as video monitors. I was very surprised. Especially since there's a comprehensive RF distribution going to every room! Eventually, they found an ancient CRT set that had been salvaged from the old school, and stashed away in a staff room to watch the football... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LX-Dave Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 For our college production, we had the band behind the stage (behind a gauze) with the conductor "side on" to the band and the actors (he was Stage Right).We connected a standard home camcorder to a DLP projector which was mounted on the lighting grid, pointed at a projector screen (also mounted on the grid). the projector was above the audience, with the screen on the tech gallery behind them. It should be straightforward to the IT dept to arrange a spare projector should it not? It seemed to work very well, and the audience seemed oblivious to it. Hope this description makes sense. Dave E2A : Picture... http://dbproductions.webs.com/Online-Image-Store/layout.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Remo Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 TFT/CRT monitors on the lip of the stage are a handy idea, but beware of ruining any blackouts with them. Even white text on a black screen (think prompt) can cause enough illumination to ruin a blackout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicemms Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 At my old school we had a similar dilema a few years ago. Our solution was an old 14" CRT tv that someone had dumped on stage which was slightly sunk into the stage floor and black mdf around it to protect it incase it got kicked or anything like that. This was then attached to a CCTV, attached to the back wall of the stage, bought from B&Q for about £20. Did the job perfectly(well no-one ever moaned about it) We then had another CCTV camera attached to the projector pole, facing the stage, connected to a CRT TV by the conductors feet which was tilted upwards by means of an mdf stand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbsy Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 One potential pitfall to beware of: the latency in many large, flat screen TVs can be long enough to cause problems with the beat. Definitely check the unit you plan to use before committing to it. I share the general concern about the orchestra being behind the audience--it really will give a strange perspective. However, I guess that's not a technical decision! Is there any reason you're planning to buy the set? You'll be able to rent them from any broadcast or event hire company--and they should provide the mounting fittings as well. This would be hugely more cost effective for a short run than any purchase. The posters who have mentioned the conductor needing to see action on the stage are likely right too. As I recall the show, there are a fair number of music cues that the conductor will have to take from the cast. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 Why not just re-arrange the band so the MD faces the cast - the only reason they usually face upstage is so that they can see the cast, so when they're at the back of the stage, just turn him around? Ever seen the MD of an on-stage band not face the audience? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbuckley Posted July 8, 2010 Share Posted July 8, 2010 One potential pitfall to beware of: the latency in many large, flat screen TVs can be long enough to cause problems with the beat. Definitely check the unit you plan to use before committing to it.Thats very true. A show I saw last year had a couple of big screen tellys hanging off a truss over the audience, and a number of computer monitors around the stage edge, all displaying the conductor. The little tellys were noticably "ahead" of the big tellys... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humey Posted July 8, 2010 Author Share Posted July 8, 2010 We usually have a live video feed during other shows that goes from a camcorder on the balcony to a TV behind the set for cueing the actors in...I just use a series of AV cables which can be problamatic..and now the distance has doubled basically..doubling the possible problems with connections. I agree that we should rent instead of buying... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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