Recommendation for simple desk

[gregadams]

At the college I'm involved with we need a new lighting board, I cant seem to find what I'm looking for.

 

the system has 4 dimmer boxes which connect to our current board with 8 pin DIN? leads

the current board is a 24/48 with a cross fader and flash buttons

 

is there anything about that would work?

 

any help is appreciated

 

Greg

Moderation: Post title clarified. "Can anybody help?" isn't a particularly useful title

[pritch]

Hi, and welcome to the Blue Room; firstly, you might get a little more help if you choose an appropriate title for your post. "Can someone Help" is likely to get lost in the noise.

 

What it looks like you've got is an analogue system, where one wire controls each channel - the vast majority of lighting desks you'll encounter now run on a digital system called DMX. In order to convert from one to the other, you'll need a piece of kit called a Demux - there's a model made by Showtec that's normally recommended around these parts.

 

Once you've got your demux, and appropriate cables to connect it into your dimmers, the world's your lobster; pretty much any desk on the market will get you sorted. Maybe if you tell us a bit more about what you need the desk to be capable of, people will be able to give you pointers.

 

Moderation: Some (quite correct!) comments relating to the inappropriateness of a now-hidden post removed

[gregadams]

Hi, point taken about the title

 

it is an analogue system, I should have just said that!

 

you have highlighted exactly my issue, all I can find is DMX, we have a couple of DMX controllers for some par 56's so I am familiar with DMX, and DMX control. however I am not familiar at all with these converters as it is.

 

what would I need from looking at the showtec one, it seems like I would need 1 for each dimmer, is this right?

[pritch]

what would I need from looking at the showtec one, it seems like I would need 1 for each dimmer, is this right?

 

Nope. That demux will control up to 72 dimmer channels, so you'll only need one demux (I presume your four dimmers are six channels each?). The unit has D25 connectors on the back, so you'll need a cable that'll connect one D25 plug to four of whatever plugs your dimmers require. You can make these up yourself (Done it once - never again!), or some places sell them ready made. www.10outof10.co.uk do, for example.

[gregadams]

ahh I get it now, after a bit of googl'ing

 

when programming the DMX would each channel on the dimmers just correlate as 1,2,3...24 on the DMX controllers address system?

 

Also budget boards that are easy to use, possibly manual rather than DMX programming, as some of the younger kids at the school can use it at times?

 

 

I REALLY APPRECIATE THIS HELP

[pritch]

when programming the DMX would each channel on the dimmers just correlate as 1,2,3...24 on the DMX controllers address system?

 

Yes, pretty much. And, by default on a simpler desk, is you push fader 1 up, DMX channel 1 goes up, which in turn relates to dimmer channel 1. You can set it up differently, but I'd suggest this way would be by far the simplest.

 

Also budget boards that are easy to use, possibly manual rather than DMX programming, as some of the younger kids at the school can use it at times?

 

How much do you want to spend? That's the big question. Also, are you happy to stick with just generic lights and maybe some LED PARs? Or do you want to get fancy, and maybe one day hire some intelligent lights (the debate as to whether or not you should use intelligent lighting in an educational establishment has been done to death - if you search the forum, you'll find many, many pages on the pros and cons. But mainly cons ).

 

If, as I suspect, you're after something nice and simple, then maybe there's another thread that's active at the moment, which may have some interesting content.

 

http://www.blue-room.org.uk/index.php?showtopic=41393

 

Have a read of that, and see if anything strikes a chord. Probably best to come back to this thread if you've got more questions though, rather than clobbering a thread concerning a different venue.

[niclights]

I don't think the Alcora is made anymore. It might also not be enough channels in 12/24 format.

Moderation: That comment refers to a now-hidden post which recommended a product that is no longer manufactured

 

 

There is Zero 88 Jester available in either 12/24 or 24/48 at £850/£1250 list respectively.

 

The desk will allow you to patch each of its channels to any of the 512 available, but the demux will be restricted to running sequentially from your chosen start address.

[bruce]

Moderation: We've had to remove several posts from this thread, as they were comments that made unsuitable recommendations - perhaps not recognising the need for a demux, or recommending products that have not been manufactured for several years. Please, before posting, have a think about whether your post actually answers the original poster's needs.

[gregadams]

How much do you want to spend? That's the big question. Also, are you happy to stick with just generic lights and maybe some LED PARs? Or do you want to get fancy, and maybe one day hire some intelligent lights (the debate as to whether or not you should use intelligent lighting in an educational establishment has been done to death - if you search the forum, you'll find many, many pages on the pros and cons. But mainly cons ).

 

If, as I suspect, you're after something nice and simple, then maybe there's another thread that's active at the moment, which may have some interesting content.

 

http://www.blue-room.org.uk/index.php?showtopic=41393

 

Have a read of that, and see if anything strikes a chord. Probably best to come back to this thread if you've got more questions though, rather than clobbering a thread concerning a different venue.

 

As little as possible if I'm honest, the use is fairly minimal and we don't seem to get the funding for the kit we want/need so this has to look really cheap.

 

I cant see the system ever running moving heads or scanners ect, just the stage lighting, it really does just have to be a replacement for the old analogue controller. I know it was recommended earlier that I give them a wide birth but the ''Showtec Showmaster 48'' looks like it fits the criteria, also they can be picked up for less that £200

 

 

oh and that thread was interesting

[paulears]

The advice to steer clear is good advice, but feel free to ignore it if you like.

 

Could I ask what is the problem with the current control? If it's things like iffy faders, and things like this - why not just repair it. After all, it's lasted a fair time, and a twin preset control is still the easiest for non-technical people to work, yet can do most things asked of it. I bet it's in a metal box, not a plastic one. You have a couple of DMX controls already, so they can work the pars, I guess.

 

The Showtec is a simple product but won't talk to your dimmers, as has been said, without a demux box. This is going to cost you £330-£350, AND 4 cables to connect it to the dimmers probably another £200 - so add the control and you are looking at at least £800 - and I suspect it could be tricky getting a Showtec control - most places seem out of stock at the same time!

 

How much to repair the old one??

[RoyJ]

Hi, before I put my suggestion forward,please bear in mind any cost will have to also relect the cost of the demux. We have a scenesetter 12/24,and have found it a very good board,they also do a 48 way version.We are in a simular situation to yourself with regard to funding, so have to choose the cheaper end of the market.That does not however mean the boards no good.As in lanterns, there is a certain amount of snobbery about equipment.Yes, we would all like high end boards, but needs must when the devil drives.One down side, with the boards suggested are no go button and having to remember the programming code.Keep it illuminated, Roy.

[gregadams]

RE: Repairing the board; This isnt an option im afraid, It has been looked at by local businesses and an Ex worker for strand...It is finally gone I'm sad to say. however I cant say what the problem was, as I wasnt arround at the time.

 

I have looked at a scenesetter actually.

 

my maths currently goes:

 

Showtec Showmaster 48 @ £195 (no indication of VAT)

 

Showtec Multi Exchanger 72 Channel Demultiplexer @ £179.99 inc VAT

 

4 way D type - 4 x Cable @ £50

[springgrove]

my maths currently goes:

 

Showtec Showmaster 48 @ £195 (no indication of VAT)

 

Showtec Multi Exchanger 72 Channel Demultiplexer @ £179.99 inc VAT

 

4 way D type - 4 x Cable @ £50

 

I don't want to be advertising, but, if you look around, you can find the demux at less cost, e.g. here. There seem to be many clones/rebadges of this model.

 

As you are in a college, can't the necessary lead (you'll only need one for 24 channels) be made up in house. There are usually plenty of old parallel printer cables hanging around which can be used as the D25 end. All you need is a small enclosure and four 8-pin DIN sockets.

[boatman]

.

my maths currently goes:

 

Showtec Showmaster 48 @ £195 (no indication of VAT)

.

.

 

If you look at the order page of that website, you'll see that prices do not include VAT. You can an identical product cheaper from Thomann, whose prices do include VAT.

[paulears]

There is so little inside an old Strand twin preset desk I find it very difficult to believe it cannot be repaired. Spares are not available off-the shelf, but there are quite a few of these around, very cheap on ebay, plus you have people like Jim Laws Lighting who often has amazing things hidden away. I opened up a late 60s Strand big desk and found wrapped up in greaseproof paper, brand new resistance strips for the quadrant faders.

 

After all, apart from a pile of faders, resistors and a few diodes, there isn't actually much inside?