Village hall lighting desk

[boatman]

In one of our village halls there are 24 channels of Betapack dimming controlled by a Zero 88 Level 24 desk. The whole installation is probably 25 years old and all of the dimmers have had their 100k resistors replaced. There is one channel stuck on at the moment, which is probably a triac failure, but I'm looking into that. The main problem is with the desk which has suffered many years of abuse from recreational beverages and cigarette ash and has several unreliable faders. I am looking for ideas for a replacement desk with DMX and memory. Obviously we have to factor in the cost of a DMX demux and some cabling.

 

This desk is probably used only 20 or 25 times a year by a variety of people who have a wide range of skills, so something similar to a 24 channel two preset desk would be appropriate. The additional feature of a cue stack would be helpful for the more advanced users. There is absolutely no possibility that movers will be used in this hall in the forseeable future. Obviously the Jester 48 or Smartfade 2496 come top of the list but are both at the very top end of the budget range. Not having a fader per channel, the Jester 24 and Smarfade 1224 would do the job but may be a bit confusing for many users. The Behringer LC2412 would do the job, but is complicated to operate and probably not for the faint hearted.

 

Others, which may do nicely, are the Stairville LC48, Botex-DC2448 and GLP Light Operator 48, all of which appear to be clones. I am unable to find any user manuals for any of them on the web, so cannot find out if any of them would be an appropriate purchase.

 

So, after all that, two questions:

 

Please could someone point me in the direction of a link to a user manual for the Stairville LC48 and its clones?

 

Does anyone have any other recommendations beyond the above list?

[Jivemaster]

Terralec.co.uk seem to have a lot of simple desks several of which would at first sight be worthy contenders. Give them a ring and see if there are manuals online. Add a bit to p&p for Highlands and Islands.

[Brian]

GLP Light Operator 48 Manual...

Light_Operator_48_V1.0_EN.pdf

[SoLiEn]

http://www.usedlighting.co.uk/control/cons...ster-1224-cased

 

http://www.usedlighting.co.uk/control/consoles/strand-mx24

 

always the secondhand option...

[smalljoshua]

The Jester 12/24 would actually be able to have a fader per channel arrangement in both Preset (Wide) and Program Modes.

 

Josh

[pritch]

The Jester 12/24 would actually be able to have a fader per channel arrangement in both Preset (Wide) and Program Modes.

 

True, but Boatman hinted in his post at the possibility of wanting to use it as a two preset desk. I've tried using a Jester in wide preset mode, and wasn't a fun experience.

 

Obviously we have to factor in the cost of a DMX demux and some cabling.

 

Cabling need not cost a huge amount; if your run between desk and dimmers already starts with a D25 in the back of the desk, and you've got space for the demux at the control position, then you should be able to swap straight out (possibly with a bit of rewiring at the D25 end), and add a short DMX cable. Far easier than making up spiders to go from demux to dimmers; true, you could buy them, but the price I've seen for ready made ones reflects the time and effort it takes to solder one up!

[PaulDF]

Also worth checking out the Zero 88 Frog desk - you may pick one up 2nd hand within your budget.

For a demux I use a showtec demux which looks very much like this one in another box: http://cpc.farnell.com/elation/multi-data-...30320?Ntt=demux

 

With one channel on a betapack stuck full I'd start by swopping the wires across from the triac control cards (small red and yellow wires on top of the cards iirc) with the adjacent one (1-2)(3-4)(5-6) and see if the fault moves. Last time I had a faulty betapack like this was the opto isolator in the triac control card.

[boatman]

Sorry for not replying sooner I was in the garden whilst it wasn't raining. Thanks to all who have replied, especially Brian for the Light Operator 48 manual. I've used both the original Frog and Fat Frog in two preset wide mode and it isn't a nice experience. One of the basic requirements of this desk will be a fader per channel in two preset mode; otherwise I'll end up being the only one who can operate it and that will be tiresome. The Juggler has also been suggested in a PM and I'll certainly look at the manual for that too.

 

Also thanks to PaulDF for the hints about the possible source of the fault on the Betapack.

 

Once I've got a list of candidates I'll approach the hall committee and see how much they want to spend. I'll let you know what we end up with.

 

A concurrent post has been automatically merged from this point on.

 

Well, that didn't take long! It's clear from the manual for the Light Operator (and it's clones) that two preset operation isn't an option, so they are out of the game. Still leaves the Behringer LC2412, but reading the manual doesn't inspire me with confidence either, so I'm leaning towards Juggler/Jester/Smartfade. Just need to pick one.

[jbaileypro]

I would actually recommend the Showtec Showmaster, although it looks to be not a very good piece of kit because of its name I find it to be an excellent desk!

 

Although it doesn't have DMX in, a monitor output, usb/media backup of files, soft patch etc it does make up with its rugged design (the black panels come off easily to show the rack mount). They do also do the 48 channel version and it is very easy to program! Very very easy! Although you don't have a theatre stack programming it does all of this using the sub faders, (which with the 48 Channel version give you 24 of) and you are able to easily create chases as well!). I also find that as it is quite a simple desk it works well because of it! If you want to just set a few scenes and move faders up and down you don't want to accidentally of soft patched some random lights and you can't figure it out as its buried in a tonne of menus etc.

 

Anyway I have owned one for about 1 and half years now and it has been running perfectly fine, the only horrid thing is the faders, the caps themselves are horrible but can easily be replaced and they are stiff (can be good or bad).

 

For under £100 you could get a few just incase one fails or gets a complete spill (more silliness then logic yet true).

[pritch]

I've used both the original Frog and Fat Frog in two preset wide mode and it isn't a nice experience.

 

Frogs are 24 channels per preset, aren't they? If you can get hold of a second hand Frog, that may be alright. No need to go into wide mode if you're using no more than 24 channels.

 

The Juggler, on the other hand, is 12 channels per preset - so you'd have to go into wide mode (if there is one!) on that.

[PaulDF]

Well, that didn't take long! It's clear from the manual for the Light Operator (and it's clones) that two preset operation isn't an option, so they are out of the game. Still leaves the Behringer LC2412, but reading the manual doesn't inspire me with confidence either, so I'm leaning towards Juggler/Jester/Smartfade. Just need to pick one.

The behringer one looks like the one I have as a backup - I wouldn't recommend it. Although there are 24 sliders only the top 12 drive the channels - the bottom ones are submasters. I have to put up channels 1-12 first before pressing a button to select 13-24, followed by sliding the presets down and back up again to bring up channels 13-24.

I have a fat frog as the main desk - like you say using it in wide isn't the nicest thing in the world but if you are only using 24 channels there is no reason to do this.

If you want more than 24 then a bullfrog is the next step up with 48 channels or 96 in wide.

[boatman]

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Frogs are 24 channels per preset, aren't they? If you can get hold of a second hand Frog, that may be alright. No need to go into wide mode if you're using no more than 24 channels.

 

The Juggler, on the other hand, is 12 channels per preset - so you'd have to go into wide mode (if there is one!) on that.

 

Yes, a Frog is 24 channels on each bank and would be OK, but I don't want to commit to being dependent on floppy disc backup until the end of time. The Jester and Smartfade both have a USB port so will have backup support for at least another ten years. That'll be as long as I need it and by then I'll be much too old and senile to care anyway!

[pritch]

Yes, a Frog is 24 channels on each bank and would be OK, but I don't want to commit to being dependent on floppy disc backup until the end of time

 

A valid point; I was going to suggest a Sirius as a possible alternative... but I suppose you don't want to be dependent on Melcards, either? :P

[Brian]

... the Light Operator (and it's clones) that two preset operation isn't an option, so they are out of the game. ...

See page 29 of the manual, the section headed Double Preset. It's not very well explained (and only in this section at the end of the manual) but it appears to do 24 channel two-preset operation.

 

Oh, and avoid the Behringer. It's horrible.

[boatman]

Thanks Brian. I only had a quick scan of the manual and will have a more detailed look tomorrow. I've already had warnings about the Behringer LC2412, but I'll be able to get hands on experience in a couple of weeks. It sounds as though it's not a good option for a layman operator.