blank firing guns

[susieg]

Can anyone give me some advice on laws about blank firing guns being used on stage in schools these days - long time since I have done it and have a feeling that they will have changed. Basically we want to fire a blank firing gun during a production (cast 14-15 year olds) and I have licences for blank firing and deac guns but will probably not be there to act as a fire arms officer due to ill health. How do I get someone else to train up to do it or do they not have to any more?

[paulears]

This topic has useful info.

 

A quick Google suggests that it is now impossible to purchase legally starting pistols that are not bright orange in colour. Most retailers using phrases to explain this such as "To comply with the new regulations ..."

[expertwitness]

I have been an Armourer and Special Effects Designer, for film and TV (as well as supplying to theatres) since 1982. I own and operate Hands On Production Services, supplying weapons to the entertainment industry.

 

The firearms acts in all there forms and addendums are specialist territory – at least 350 pages long, and as you can imagine the rules and regulations with regards to weapon use in film TV and theatre are consequentially long, complicated, subject to misinterpretation and emotional bias and of course are ever changing.

 

For the expert, it is very difficult to keep track of the regulations, and up with the many and frequent changes. For the layman, it is impossible.

 

There are no accredited training courses in the UK, and as far as I know there never has been. Most people with an interest in or with requirement for the use of weapons in theatre, learn about it “on the hoof”, and using a mixture of common sense and a great measure of good luck, provide the Directorial requirements without anyone being injured or worse.

 

Essentially any competent person, over the age of 18 can use weapons for theatrical purposes, provided the weapons are held legally.

 

It is getting increasingly difficult to retail blank firers in this country and so consequently the traditional suppliers are curtailing this side of their business. This means the supply chain is severely restricted, both in quantity and variety, and this is of course where it gets hard for legitimate users to procure these props. It also explains why every villain on TV these days seems to have one type of weapon – the Beretta 92 – which is still fairly easy to get hold of. Soon too these will become impossible to import into Britain.

[rossmck]

A quick Google suggests that it is now impossible to purchase legally starting pistols that are not bright orange in colour.

 

And to make it even more confusing - once such bright orange one (the Olympic 8) is now illegal as of June in the UK anyway and those found in possession of one will be treated just as if they had any other firearm - even if it's completely unmodified and bright orange! :)

[johnlinford]

They're not completely impossible to buy - we had to replace a broken one a couple of months ago. However, as expertwitness says finding a model that is not a Beretta 92 proved rather difficult. It's a shame, it'd be nice to replace the revolver which the spring broke in...

[expertwitness]

The orange ones, most recently available to the market place will be banned as of early June this year, so retailers are shifting them cheaply before they have to hand them in.

 

But, it's worse than that actually Ross!

 

If you are found in possession of these weapons after the earliest of June (can't find the actual date), when it becomes a PROHIBITED WEAPON, you as owner or you as custodian of it - ie the General Manager or other Senior Executive Post within an organisation, professional or otherwise, then you could be subject to arrest and potentially charged with a very serious criminal offence.

 

The theatre fraternity are generally not from the criminal classes, of course, but there will be no distinction made between an innocent President of an amateur theatre group (for example) and a hardend hoodlum who has sinister intentions in possessing such an item.

 

I would suggest everyone searches their prop stores and secure locking cabinets for any older versions of this gun as well, since they will all come under the same ban.

 

 

The model concerned in the current banning round is marked, Olympic 38*, BBM (with a discoid shaped logo with arrow)* These weapons take the 9mm Revolver blanks

 

I asterisked the ID details because these marks might not be present on you weapons, but they might still be subject to the new rule.

[Simon Lewis]

Can you link to a photo? I intended buying a starting pistol for acoustic testing purpses, but wouldn't want one that gets me arrested or has to be handed in 1 week after purchase!

[rossmck]

Can you link to a photo? I intended buying a starting pistol for acoustic testing purpses, but wouldn't want one that gets me arrested or has to be handed in 1 week after purchase!

 

There's a few at http://www.google.com/images?q=olympic+starting+pistol showing it in both it's black and bright orange guises

[Stan Hope-Streeter]

The orange ones, most recently available to the market place will be banned as of early June this year, so retailers are shifting them cheaply before they have to hand them in.

 

So the retailers are flogging these to unsuspecting buyers, knowing that said buyers risk imprisonment for possession in a couple of weeks' time?

 

That's even worse than the situation with radio mics.

 

There's no longer any ethics in business .... but we all knew that anyway....

[Simon Lewis]

There's a few at http://www.google.com/images?q=olympic+starting+pistol showing it in both it's black and bright orange guises

 

So exactly the same one that Richard Hammond had in his TV programme on Wembley's acoustics!

[rossmck]

So the retailers are flogging these to unsuspecting buyers, knowing that said buyers risk imprisonment for possession in a couple of weeks' time?

 

Well otherwise they'll have to hand any stock they have over to the police and make a loss on it :) ... but, yes, it is rather unethical but equally for the government to suddenly outlaw what has been a perfectly legal product for many years isn't exactly the epitome of ethical ;)

 

Theres a lot of misleading descriptions ranging from "Home Office Approved" and "the principal colour of these is orange so it conforms to the new legislation"

 

Does anyone (expertwitness?) know if this affects all "Olympic" starter pistols or just specifically this model ? They refer to it interchangeably as "Olympic .380 BBM" and "Olympic 6" etc but I believe there are multiple products that carry the Olympic moniker ?

 

Come to think of it I can think of two (theatre) organisations that have these I think :/

[expertwitness]

ROSS, as far as I know, it's only the .38 model that is subject to the ban - the .22 or 6mm versions are exempt - but don't hold me to that. Your local Police firearms licensing department can tell you what their interpretation of the legals is/are.

 

 

 

 

 

A concurrent post has been automatically merged from this point on.

 

"So exactly the same one that Richard Hammond had in his TV programme on Wembley's acoustics!"

 

I can't answer this, since I did not see the program. Nor is it easy to identify for sure since , I wouold need the weapon in my hands to say for sure.

 

In any event the Olympic 38 is not banned until June, so there is no issue with what these weapons are used on until then.

 

After the ban, only holders of Prohibited weapons authority documents, issued by the Governments of the UK can still possess these weapons.

 

A concurrent post has been automatically merged from this point on.

 

Can you link to a photo? I intended buying a starting pistol for acoustic testing purpses, but wouldn't want one that gets me arrested or has to be handed in 1 week after purchase!

 

It's not really about looking photos Simon, since many guns look similar and are not subject to the ban. If it's got Olympic 38, and the bbm logo, I would supect it is subject to the intended prohibition. .22 (or6mm) versions are probably not subject.

[scjb]

The BASC has a press release relating to the amnesty, but also highlighting the differences between those that are to be prohibited and those that will remain publicly available. Have a look at...

 

BASC Amnesty Info

[Simon Lewis]

It's not really about looking photos Simon, since many guns look similar and are not subject to the ban. If it's got Olympic 38, and the bbm logo, I would supect it is subject to the intended prohibition. .22 (or6mm) versions are probably not subject.

 

What I should have said was, "there are various devices available, and to my untrained eyes there are starting pistols which look the same but are being sold under different names". If there is something that visually confirms the gun to be the type that will be banned, it would be useful to know" !

 

The BASC document seems to answer my queries though.

[Jivemaster]

The OP's bbiggest problem could be that the cast for this performance are legal minors under 18 years of age. I think that totally precludes them holding firearms of any vaguely realistic appearance.

 

MSER which covers explosives also covers amunition inc blanks and certainly forbids handling explosives by under 18s.