Radio Mics or FOH?

[djtom29]

Hi Guys,

Here is a quick update on where I am with this.

 

As far as radio mics go, I’m waiting to hear back from the local Trantec dealer about a demo, also going to try and arrange a demo of some Sennhiser G3’s and I will go with a dealer for either rather than mix and matching a system myself.

As for the PA situation, a quite interesting development here, today I was lucky enough to hear some 18Inch Scooped Bass cabs built by a friend of mine 3 years ago and trashed by a nightclub. After hearing them my opinions of “home made” cabs were changed FOR GOOD! They sounded amazing! While they had been trashed for 3 years by a nightclub, they provided far more of a kick than the DAS Audio subs we have at the minute, we tried 2 of these cabs with 2 Bose 802’s on top. He is going to be building another 2 subs and custom building tops to match the subs soon and so I asked him if he would build a rig to suit the venue for me, including all amps, crossover/processor and cabling for £2K. So that’s where I’m headed with the PA side of things.

 

Thanks

Tom

[Rob_Beech]

It may be that our opinions of "amazing" are somewhat relative and subjective. There's a very good chance that the style of sub is not suitable for your application. May I suggest you get a demo of different types of sub (let the people doing the demo look at the venue and decide what might be the most suitable). And see how you feel. It's always good to listen to alot of things and THEN make a decision.

 

If you're still thinking of going down the wireless route then do demo a few things, see what works best for you. Also, make sure you factor in the cost of the antenna distribution (you'll need 2 4 channel ones), antenna (you'll need 2) and several 10's and metres of 50ohm cable...... (that's the more expensive one). On top of this, you'll need 8 of your primary mic type, plus a couple of spares at least. Then you'll need a selection of different sorts, maybe a few headsets, maybe some omni lavs instead of cardioid or the other way around. Maybe a large non discreet headset. Perhaps a couple of cables to connect a wired mic or a device with jack outputs to it. Perhaps then you'll buy some spare pack antenna, some spare spring clips for the belt packs. Pouches for when costume doesn't allow clipping of a beltpack.

 

You might benefit from a hand held transmitter that you can use for other things, or as a spare. You'd probably want a spare end cap for that (manufacturer dependant).

 

You'll need the standard CH69 / 38 license for 1 or 2 years. Which you'll have to renew every 1 or 2 years. That cost will probably go up.

 

A bag of locking jack plugs would be a help, these fail on a regular basis.

 

If you go discreet headset, then you'll need spare capsule covers, plastic and foam, spare ears, spare m3 thread male and female inserts, spare locking clips for the headbands.

 

 

Then in 2012, you can buy them again :P

[djtom29]

It may be that our opinions of "amazing" are somewhat relative and subjective. There's a very good chance that the style of sub is not suitable for your application. May I suggest you get a demo of different types of sub (let the people doing the demo look at the venue and decide what might be the most suitable). And see how you feel. It's always good to listen to alot of things and THEN make a decision.

 

The guy who built these subs, is comming in with me to the venue soon to have a look at what we need to put in for a system to suit that room and the schools needs, I simply said amazing as in the cabs he built changed my views on "home made" cabs of any kind.

 

As this is a school I have no option when it comes to purchasing radios, and have £7K to spend on them, and only them! despite my best efforts to change this!

[david.elsbury]

The guy who built these subs, is comming in with me to the venue soon

 

Comming into the venue? Surely it would be better for him to come to the venue instead, that way he can get a better idea as he'll be able to see it?

[djtom29]

The guy who built these subs, is comming in with me to the venue soon

 

Comming into the venue? Surely it would be better for him to come to the venue instead, that way he can get a better idea as he'll be able to see it?

 

Yes thats what I ment, he is going to come in to the venue and together we are going to work out what we need to put in there. I dont quite get what you mean with that post?

[AndyL]

Then in 2012, you can buy them again :)

 

Pessimist!

 

Only true if:

• You buy equipment that works on channel 69 and the gear can't be converted.
  

Not true (hopefully, as far as we know!):

• If you buy gear on frequencies NOTon Ch.38 or 69 and get a coordinated fixed site licence.
  

(Shouldn't Ofcom be telling you this stuff :huh: ?)

[Stan Hope-Streeter]

As this is a school I have no option when it comes to purchasing radios, and have £7K to spend on them, and only them! despite my best efforts to change this!

That says rather a lot about the kind of people who are managing the money we taxpayers provide for education. In fact it's quite outrageous.

You have had fairly consistent advice here from several contributors who have decades of professional experience, which advises strongly that such a purchase will be an extremely poor investment - indeed a waste of money.

He is going to be building another 2 subs and custom building tops to match the subs soon and so I asked him if he would build a rig to suit the venue for me, including all amps, crossover/processor and cabling for £2K. So that's where I'm headed with the PA side of things.

YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS !!

(and I'm not John McEnroe)

Run away from that offer NOW, or you'll be losing your job in a year's time.

[djtom29]

YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS !!

(and I'm not John McEnroe)

Run away from that offer NOW, or you'll be losing your job in a year's time.

 

Any reason? Im not a masive fan of "home made" speakers of any sorts, however after listening to two of the subs he made when he was "starting out" with building his own rigs, and after 3 years of abuse, with 2 diffrent drivers in that arnt of any real qualy my views have been changed!

[Stan Hope-Streeter]

Any reason?

 

Firstly because of this:

 

a rig to suit the venue ... including all amps, crossover/processor and cabling for £2K.

 

If your venue is any bigger than his bedroom, he's living in cloud cuckoo land.

 

 

And secondly because I have personally experienced he results of a (professional) venue having audio kit made by well-meaning amateurs. Not on my watch, but by the person I replaced.

 

Really, I give up ...

[paulears]

Apart from all the stuff that's been said there is one other thing to consider. Whatever happens, do you really want your name to be associated with it? If the result is a waste of their funds, because it doesn't do what they expect (even if they don't know what they really want) then everybody washes their hands of it and looks for somebody to blame.

 

Nothing wrong with home built kit, at all - BUT - unless it's a proven design, can the seller guarantee it will sound good?

 

As for the radio mics - I've heard and used the Sennheisers and Trantecs and I'm sure they would both be great systems. The snag is simply that everybody here is basically telling you to stop and A. Think about the implications of buying or renting, and B. If you buy them, what band would be best?

 

Hiring for many schools is simply out of the question, it is something they just don't do - but these things are policy questions that you are not able to answer.

 

The best thing would simply be to turn the info here into a number of alternate proposals, then let the powers that be make the decision - taking the blame off your shoulders.

 

Just give them options and recommendations - they'll be fine with this.

[Bobbsy]

A further thought about a home-built solution:

 

In a theatre situation, the "sound" of the speakers is only part of the decision. You also need to consider things like the dispersion pattern and frequency response (which is subtlely but significantly different from the sound).

 

The dispersion is important because you want to get an even coverage over the whole auditorium with as little spill onto stage, walls and ceiling as possible. The frequency response is important because systems can sound superficially pleasant even if they have nasty response spikes that make things far more prone to feedback.

 

Professional speaker manufacturers use very expensive computer modelling to design the speakers then equally expensive test equipment to make sure they match the model. I would be very surprised if a home builder would have the skills and equipment to provide repeatable, guaranteed results.

 

Beyond all that, how about future maintenance if the builder moves out of the area or gets bored with playing speaker builder?

 

I wouldn't want to put my name to something as unpredictable as a homebuilt speaker system that a school will have to use for many years to come.

 

Bob

[mostlyharmless]

Also, a 'reasonable' sub is fairly easy to build with a simple spreadsheet and a decent driver.

 

A top box is a whole different game!

 

 

 

Look at the rave/party scene (the only places you see these boxes?), loads of people make their own subs. Very few make their own tops.