Radio Mics or FOH?

[paulears]

My experience when teaching was a bit like Bob's - you lay down rules, and make sure they follow them. It falls down when the kids are in charge because technical input is either non-existent or present and rubbish, and the teachers have problems with 13A plugs needing to be actually plugged in, so are no help at all!

 

I really don't know why so many schools insist on adding technical elements to their production when they don't have the ability to manage it?

[sleah]

I blame the staff theatre technicians and drama teachers myself...they always want to play with lighting at the expense of sound!

and they managed on two seperate occasions to re-tune a mic to the same frequency as another, thereby taking out both of them.

However, we always set down rules at the beginning of a production, number one being "we've put tape over the switches on the mic--NOBODY but designated sound crew is to interfere with the tape". Rule two was "if you have problems or concerns, find somebody from the sound crew".

 

We have 8 lapel/headset radio mics used mainly for our annual junior musical and occasional other smaller scale show, without any major problems.

I'm the only person in the school who is fully competant at setting up and running the system, and happen to be in charge of it all ;)

 

How the heck can performers end up retuning radio mics!!!!! Lack of ground rules methinks :P

 

Like Bob, I set down rules. Firstly the staff involved are told how the mics should be used and treated, such as not touching buttons, placement and so on. This is then told to the students. I tell them if anyone does mess about and cause problems I may just switch the system off and they can do without any radio mics for the production - no pressure then ;)

I make it clear to performers it is THEM who suffer if they don't do as asked and start messing about, teaching staff back me on that too.

 

Despite being fortunate enough to have an in-house radio mic system, I too would suggest it should be the last part of the PA to be purchased, especially if there isn't the full time expertise to support it.

[Pattern123]

How the heck can performers end up retuning radio mics!!!!! Lack of ground rules methinks :P

 

Nothing much to do with ground rules (Not that our 6th formers take much notice of those at the best of times!) more to do with quantity of mics and changes. We were running 8 Lapel mics - 6 of our own and 2 hired, as well as 4 Handheld mics - 2 of our own and 2 hired. These were used across 20 performers out of a cast of 110. Trying to get this to work was always going to be an uphill battle, and competing with a live string quartet and performing in Traverse with 120 audience on each side - four entrances and 4 Bose 802 speakers for PA, it's a miracle anyone heard anything, to be honest. It actually all worked pretty well, but in my opinion it would have been better without the radio mics at all - the performance overall would have been slicker.

 

At the end of the day though it's a school play, no-one expects perfection! It's more about involving the kids, them getting something from it, and learning at the same time.

[sleah]

How the heck can performers end up retuning radio mics!!!!! Lack of ground rules methinks ;)

 

Nothing much to do with ground rules (Not that our 6th formers take much notice of those at the best of times!) more to do with quantity of mics and changes.

 

Your post read as if the performers had retuned the mics themselves, hence my statement. I would tell them if they mess, they do without :P

[Bobbsy]

In traverse with an audience that small and only a string quartet to compete with, frankly I probably wouldn't have bothered with the mics either.

 

That said, when approached properly I find that teenagers--even the teenagers of today--ARE willing to follow guidelines if they've been explained properly. Similarly, the level of mic swaps you mention is far from impossible to coordinate. Even big budget shows in the West End swap mics among secondary characters--I once saw the mic plot for Les Mis and the A2 backstage must have been having a "blue ass fly" time.

 

And, finally, I know it's not always possible but the "learning something" should apply to the tech crew as well as the cast. Given the instruction, teenagers are capable of mixing a show using lots of radio mics. I'm happy to say that a fair number of people I worked with in their teens have gone on to work professionally in the industry...a few even contributing to the BR nowadays!

 

Bob

[djtom29]

Hi guys,

 

Thanks for the replies, I’ve been a bit busy recently so haven’t had time to post back yet.

Some updates on my situation,

Basically in order to get the £7K there was a massive battle between the drama department and the “powers that bee” and so if they change what then there will be arguments and the money may not be there at all! However there has been talks about a PA being put in the hall, and I have been allocated £2K for this. From working in the hall since the start of the year I know £2k isn’t going to get any were near what I would deem a “suitable” “high quality” PA system for that room or the uses the school have for it, however I am putting a semi pro PA I have on hire for 2 weeks in the room next week to prove that for anything of any sort of quality that a budget of £2K isn’t going to be enough! Even for a mixer for the school £2K isn’t really much for the use they have for it! So what I’m now asking is, If you had a completely blank canvas, what would you look at first? I’m tempted to look at a Front Of House Rack, Multicore, Sub Multi, Power Distribution, and things like that, to provide an “infrastructure” for hire equipment to be brought in and just plug strait in! The reason im looking at a FOH Rack is that from working there, while they had a massive budget for a school, the budget only JUST covered mics, desk, PA, Monitoring, and the “odds and sods” to make it work, and I only had a system and Radio graphic, as budget for comps/gates/reverb/graphics was un existent! So I figure it would be a good idea to invest in some form of rack (of decent quality) as this is often overlooked when they book a system and defiantly needed.

So as the original topic says, your views??

On a separate note, I went to PLASA Focus yesterday and am in the process of arranging a demo of the Trantec S5.5 8 Way Lav system. I am still considering other options, but the Trantec kit is all ready switched to channel 32!

Thanks again

 

Tom

[Stan Hope-Streeter]

The correct answer is usually "infrastructure". Your spider boxes and power distro for the stage sound like a good idea.

 

As for "FOH rack & multicore", that will all be obsolete in no time. Digital consoles (which include all the comps, gates and effects you are ever likely to need) are pretty much the norm now and the only traditional signal multicore you need is a set of tie lines for comms, returns, cue lights etc plus some coaxial lines and cat 5 (and backups) for digital and video stuff.

 

But £7k won't buy much of anything in this day and age.

 

Radio mics should be "hire-in" item, unless you are in the £100k budget league.

[Rob_Beech]

Channel 32?

[djtom29]

Channel 32?

 

Well what ever the "new" Channel's are, As I say im not 100% up to date with the digital switchover for radios (hence this topic) but from talking to people thats what the new band for mics is?

[AndyL]

1) If it were a school I was involved with and with that budget I would say buy the PA first and get that right and rent the radio mics when needed.

 

And please remember where I work when I say that! (Don't tell sales)

 

2) Re: Channel 38

 

Most schools, churches and the like do not need channel 38. If the radio microphones are needed to be used only in that school, then there is no need for them to be in channel 38 at all. The point of channel 38 (or channel 69) is that it is - or will be eventually - available throughout the UK without any coordination by the licencing body (JFMG Ltd.) so it is available for rental companies, ENG crews, etc. who need that flexibility to go anywhere any time. For a fixed site such as a school they can and should use coordinated fixed site licence UHF frequencies away from channel 69 or 38. This means that when additional radio mics need to be hired in or are brought in by visiting groups they are unlikely to clash with the 'installed' radio mics. For example Evolution G3 is available now in three frequency ranges that can be licensed on a fixed site basis:

 

• A - 518MHz to 556MHz - TV channel 27 to 31 approx.
  
• B - 626MHz to 668MHz - TV channels 40 to 44 approx.
  
• C - 734MHz to 776MHz - TV channels 54 to 58 approx.
  

When you have a coordinated fixed site licence nobody else can licence those frequencies within a certain radius of your location. The equipment costs need be no different from buying 'channel 69' versions. A conversation with JFMG is highly recommended before purchase however to identify the TV channels which are available now and also likeley to still be avaible post DSO. you also need to make sure that any dealer or distributor understands that they need to order the correct frequency range and don't just sell you the off the shelf 'Range E' version, 'cos if they do you are going to be sending it back! So there is a little bit of work involved, but there usually is if you want to do something right. It's worth the effort for the resulting peace of mind. And if you do get interference on your coordinated fixed site licence frequencies from another user you get to complain about it! (With the shared licence you are pretty much on your own.)

 

OK so you might want to use the radio mics away from the school occasionally. But really how many times a year? Wouldn't those odd occasions be the time to rent something?

[Bobbsy]

Good advice from Andy. However, one point that should be made is that the coordinated fixed site license is around double the cost per year of a UK Shared licence. However, spread over the year, the difference between £75 and £168 probably doesn't mean much to a typical school.

 

Bob

[boswell]

Good advice from Andy. However, one point that should be made is that the coordinated fixed site license is around double the cost per year of a UK Shared licence. However, spread over the year, the difference between £75 and £168 probably doesn't mean much to a typical school.

 

Bob

 

Trouble is, we don't know yet what the fees will be post 20212, I suspect they will be a bit higher!

[Simon Lewis]

....one point that should be made is that the coordinated fixed site license is around double the cost per year of a UK Shared licence.

 

It might also be worth pointing out that the £168 is a capped fee for a block of frequencies. If a school was to licence or or two co-ordinated frequencies, the cost would be £28 and £56 respectvely.

 

Simon

[Bobbsy]

True...I think the break point is six or more frequencies. However, the OP was talking in terms of 8 channels so I used the "block" price.

 

Bob

[Simon Lewis]

However, the OP was talking in terms of 8 channels so I used the "block" price.

 

He was indeed! my mistake...