martinkings Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 I need to replicate an over the top trench charge from WW1 - similar to the end of blackadder - for a play I was planning on using le maitre maroons, but has anyone got any better ideas? I need explosions + puffs of white smoke, but I don't want to use theatrical flashes as it doesn't feel quite the right effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRisdale Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Well, your charging soldiers would be essentially facing two forms of death - machine gun fire and artillery / mortar fire. The former will be hard to replicate successfully, but some LOUD sound effects will give the right idea... As for the artillery, how about soft shrapnel loaded air/CO2 cannons, accompanied by theatrical flashes, VERY LOUD explosions and smoke? Gareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivemaster Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 Is there dialogue that must be heard over the noise of battle, Is there budget and space for a good battle raging on. Are the talent reliable enough for them to do the same thing nightly so that they can be predictable for the pyro locations and timing. How much can be done by sound effects rather than pyro fx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinkings Posted October 30, 2009 Author Share Posted October 30, 2009 Love the air-cannon idea. Are the le maitre air cannons the ones you're thinking of - I've used them before and it would look effective. Also agree that sound effects might be better, but still need the puffs of white smoke, and while I know skyhigh fx do puffs of white smoke, I only have le maitre control equipment and don't want to waste budge hiring skyhigh hardware. I could be wrong, but I can't find any le maitre puffs of white smoke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GridGirl Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 Le Maitre certainly used to do smoke puffs - I've used them in the past, although not for about three years so who knows, they may have discontinued them. I did a show a few years back where we needed to replicate a trench charge - although we staged it so that they charged over the top and upstage - and we had a big gas cannon which belonged to a local fireworks company (you charged it up with LPG then fired it - the more LPG the bigger the explosion - it was pretty much a giant bird-scarer!), lots of smoke machines, and a very scary thing called the "electric scissors" which was a positively charged carbon rod and a negatively charged carbon rod which you shorted out with a third rod, producing very bright flashes of light! I wasn't responsible for the risk assessment, happily, but looking back, we should never have had the damn thing! We also experimented with hand-held single-use CO2 cannons loaded up with chalk, but it was an opera and the chalk was disastrous for singers! Gave us a great effect though - looked like the fallout from a bomb hitting the dirt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 If you don't want the place to fill up with smoke try TPL (Theatrical Pyrotechnics Ltd) Miniature Smoke Puffs. they are a wire ended device and will drop right onto your LM hardware. (If you need to find a supplier then drop me a PM). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRisdale Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 What's wrong with the puff of smoke kicked out by a theatrical flash (small one in video)? In one unit you get a flash at "point of impact" and a burst of smoke. They also come in three sizes so you can mix them up, and are pretty cheap so you can load quite a few. Coupled with a cannon firing bits of black and brown foam etc into the air from the same spot, it would certainly do it for me... If you launched the debris high enough it would probably spill into the audience too... Lots of "fog of war" haze naturally... Gareth. EDIT: Just noticed that the OP did say he didn't want to use theatrical flashes, but coupled with complimentary effects, such as debris flying into the air, I'd suggest it might still be worth looking at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivemaster Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 We could go OTT on this! Would the OP please say how much effect they really want, and how big the space is. A large number of confetti cannons filled with garden peat could be enough even the smallest maroon could be to large. A sensible project would be pulling together a series of sound, visual and pyro cues with some acting. Careful scripting of all the fx cues is important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinkings Posted October 30, 2009 Author Share Posted October 30, 2009 At the moment, my ideas are as follows: 2 co2 air cannons either side, filled with garden peat2 theatrical flashes on stage at the back1 maroon backstage So the only danger would be the 2 theatrical flashes. The scene is a gas attack followed by an over-the-top trench charge upstage, the 'trench' is in front of the stage, so they use mini ladders to climb onto the stage. I'm going to use a low-fogger (MDG ice fogger) to simulate the gas attack, then they all climb up in gas masks. I'll have a couple of people dying on the 2 theatrical flashes (set off at different times). I would then use a confetti cannon maroon (as I've got some knocking about) backstage to simulate a loud explosion, fire the 2 co2 air cannons from each wing, arcing above the stage and falling. I think this rules out danger as much as possible - what do other people think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivemaster Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 The CO2 canons would be best used to propel upwards the debris from a shell hit (the peat) -Sound effect of in coming shell then a thud and a debris cloud rising. Have you a way to conceal CO2 tubes on stage? What about in a raised climb over in the "footlights" area. How is your Sfx and sound system, can you get an incoming shell SFX and walk it across the stage with the sound desk All of the incoming get a thud and blast on landing -in the sfx! The ones on the stage get a up blast of something like peat with the sound effect. Don't repeat the same Sfx too often or it gets comedic. You have got no-where in the RA yet. Count the people see where the effects have to come, and for each effect you have to prove that there will be no-one within hazard range. Even repeated shock wave exposure could add up and the cast be at risk from genuine shell shock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timsabre Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 I would forget the maroon and stick with sound effects - maroons sound nothing like what people expect of a shell explosion - they are far too short and sharp.If you want to scare the pants off the audience they are quite effective at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRisdale Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 I would forget the maroon and stick with sound effects...Agreed. Gareth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivemaster Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 A carefully chosen "Battle" Sfx track with some added "incoming shells" each of which has it's own debris cloud on stage, will give you a relatively safe and very effective background to some good action. Make sure that the track leaves space in the audio for any necessary script to come through. If the sound and visual Sfx work together then you will have no problem getting the audience to suspend disbelief for long enough for the play to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 ...2 co2 air cannons either side, filled with garden peat...I think this rules out danger as much as possible - what do other people think?Hmmmm, biological hazards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivemaster Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 You have not appreciated the "Hazards" and their "Risks" even slightly yet in this discussion. Design the scene then start on the effects and their synchronising. THEN look at the problems associated with each element, even the "scaling ladders" From standing in the orchestra pit (and how do they get there?) you have ladders, climbing, falling and sound Fx and several pyro fx and flying debris to contend with before all the cast get onto the stage. If you have a run of this show you have to plan that the cast can pass through your warzone without real danger every time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.