Reporting a dangerous rig

[savage1]

This is probably a stupid question but who do I report a venue to for having an unsafe rig?

 

Some of the rigs features:

A video camera held up with a screwdriver.

A safety chain that was held together with a piece of wire (this was on a 6kg fixture).

None of the clamps are the correct type or the truss so all the lights just hang on very loosely.

No safetys on most of the lights.

Cable ties used to hold up Par cans.

 

and thats not all of them!

oh and is there anyway to avoid the venue knowing who made the report?

 

 

Edit: This should be in the safety forum.. I think my brain is a bit fried from too many shifts over the weekend.

[Brian]

...who do I report a venue to for having an unsafe rig?

The poor overworked department at the local authority responsible for the venue's Premises License.

 

...is there anyway to avoid the venue knowing who made the report?

Your name should not be passed on by those investigating.

[paulears]

If you really want to complain, then the courtesy process would suggest you contact the venue first - they could be totally in ignorance. However, they'd identify you straight away. If you want to keep the complaint quiet, and drop them in it anonymously, for whatever reason - then the local council would be a good place, as they will have issued whatever license is in force. They may be able to keep your identity secret. My experience is that venues always find out in the end who complained. Usually because somebody in the venue knows who you are, or saw you looking or heard on the grapevine.

[Wilflet]

What is your relationship to the venue?

 

I agree with Paul that it is more polite to raise your concerns with the venue first. It may well be that people in the venue are un-aware of what those under them are doing (yes the boss should be aware of everything in his or her venue, I know) and something being brought to their attention and them delivering an apropriate kick up the rear to their people is enough.

 

After all I assume your desire isnt to get someone in trouble per se just to see that, for the sake of those sat underneath this rig, that everything is made safe.

[berry120]

Perhaps a silly point, but would an anonymous letter addressed to the technical manager of the venue be a good starting point? It should keep you anonymous and it'd least make them aware of it - since as others have pointed out they may not be already. If nothing happens following that then you can of course consider complaining to a higher authority such as the council.

[hadyn.williams]

What sort of venue is it?

 

If it's an amateur venue, then as other have suggested maybe no one is aware just how unsafe it is? It might also mean that there is no technical manager or similar further up the chain to report it to.

[savage1]

A bit more info: The venue is a small (capacity 230) live music venue/bar running several gigs per week. A few months back I wanted to put a couple of led cans on 1 of the trusses at which point I discovered the dodgy clamps, lack of safeties and a couple of nasty cables. I informed the venue manager and a house tech of my concerns and was told it would be sorted. I was back in the same venue very recently which is when I noticed everything in my first post and a good few more issues. I have been informed that a friend of mine complained about similar issues nearly a year ago!

[paulears]

Pretty much what we thought. The safety of the public and staff is of course your first concern. If you report it, then almost certainly a few things will happen. The local authority will appear, condemn the installation as being unsafe, probably then check everything else. Issue some kind of enforcement notice that will prevent trading until rectified. If they find evidence they knew the installation was dangerous, then legal proceedings may follow. You will of course be indentified, and those who don't understand will blame you for the closure and financial loss, citing over enthusiastic and possibly vindictive reporting to the authority. Your name becomes well know for all the wrong reasons, and every job that comes up locally will possibly vanish when other people wonder if you will find defects in their equipment while there, and report them!

 

Not fair of course - but it's the way the world seems to be nowadays.

 

In my own venue I found some worrying defects. I reported them verbally, and for security emailed the details in a concerned tone to the owners, getting a delivery and read report. It didn't get fixed due to an administration error in the office, as nobody remembered to see if it had been done. I don't like it, but I've done what I can, and have evidence showing I tried to sort it. I cannot do more. I am not going to report it to the local authority. I know that if I did, I'd be history.

 

In an ideal world we could say whatever we want, but practical situations perhaps demand differences?

[rooftop]

You could always advise HSE of the situation and let them follow it up - they treat whistle blowers anonymously, as we discovered when a disgruntled ex-employee tried to cause a spot of bother for us.

[bruce]

they treat whistle blowers anonymously, as we discovered when a disgruntled ex-employee tried to cause a spot of bother for us.

 

But since you know that it was this "disgruntled ex-employee", the anonymity didn't work very well, did it? It's usually not too difficult to work out.

[rossmck]

What sort of venue is it?

 

If it's an amateur venue, then as other have suggested maybe no one is aware just how unsafe it is? It might also mean that there is no technical manager or similar further up the chain to report it to.

 

I'd second that ... I was in an amateur space recently that was just as bad and they

were very receptive when I explained what was wrong with it and asked for advice

on where to go from there to correct it.

 

It's easy to assume that they're just being careless/lazy but in many cases, sadly,

amateur groups simply don't know better until their shown... hopefully taking a few

minutes now to show them the error of their ways will be passed down to anyone

else who takes on the responsibility for the venue in the future :(

 

Edit: I typed this at 8pm (before the other posts appeared on the subject!) and then lost my

internet connection and resubmitted it afterwards - sorry! ;)

[kerry davies]

Why not inform the venue of your concerns offering to remedy the problems ... for a fee. If they take no action to rectify a dangerous situation your only recourse is to report it to the local authority, which you could also tell them. (HSE does not normally take care of "leisure premises, pubs or clubs")

I am not sure whether simply reporting in writing to the management would completely cover you as you are working on/with that equipment. Standard industrial practice would be to make any equipment safe/take it out of service then report it. Simply leaving something which is a danger to the public COULD leave you partially liable.

 

WARNING this is not legal advice, merely my own opinion.

[rooftop]

But since you know that it was this "disgruntled ex-employee", the anonymity didn't work very well, did it? It's usually not too difficult to work out.

 

Not really, depending how discrete you are.

 

While he was still employed he did several things and acted in certain ways which made it very obvious who had written to HSE (plus the fact he had reported 2 venues to HSE in his letter -- which both he and me had visited on a previous occasion.... made it conclusive really)

[pritch]

Of course, having posted here, the OP has already lost a certain amount of that anonymity. We know his first name, can take a reasonable guess at the surname, his location, age, and some of the people he works for. There's nothing to say that the venue can't do likewise. The venue hasn't been named, but there's probably enough information in this thread for someone who knows the venue to identify it.

[Guest lightnix]

...If you report it, then almost certainly a few things will happen. The local authority will appear...

 

You will of course be indentified, and those who don't understand will blame you... Your name becomes well know for all the wrong reasons... other people wonder if you will find defects... and report them!

 

Not fair of course - but it's the way the world seems to be nowadays.

Sad, but true and not confined to the backstage industry, either.

 

For all the sympathetic noises made by the HSE about supporting whistleblowers, the actual extent of their support, goes only as far as referring whistleblowers to some charity; which - if they are self-employed - appears to have no real means of offering help. See here...

 

In my own venue I found some worrying defects. I reported them verbally, and for security emailed the details.... It didn't get fixed due to an administration error in the office... I don't like it, but I've done what I can, and have evidence showing I tried to sort it. I cannot do more...

For better or worse, this is possibly the most pragmatic view; even if it's one that may not sit comfortably with everybody, from a moral point of view.

 

On that note... By reporting something as dangerous, you effectively bar yourself from working on it IMO. If you continue working on it and it all comes crashing down, then you open yourself to the question, "If you believed it was unsafe and reported it as such, why did you carry on?" :huh:

 

I'm sure there are several venues, of the type described above, where things are not absolutely 100%; where there are incorrect clamps, missing safety bonds and dodgy electrics. What you must ask yourself, if you find yourself working in one, is which you value more highly: your principals or your livelihood :unsure: