Combined data/power connectors

[MarkPAman]

If it's not per manufacturers design, you're just supposed to do it!

That's true!

Also, Connectors have to be colour coded as to the voltage they carry EG: Blue 230V, yellow 110V etc

From where I'm sitting I can see dozens of 230V connectors. Most are black, some are grey, some are white, but none are blue. Also, speakons are blue (and black) anyway :)

[jhammar]

Maybe the connector that Link uses for their ENG boxes, although it may have too many signal connects for you.

 

http://www.linkitaly.com/listProducts.asp?idGroup=61

 

I'm sure ITT-Cannon / Veam makes something suitable, just flick through their catalog of thousands of connectors.

 

Cheers

J

[hadyn.williams]

Also, Connectors have to be colour coded as to the voltage they carry EG: Blue 230V, yellow 110V etc

From where I'm sitting I can see dozens of 230V connectors. Most are black, some are grey, some are white, but none are blue. Also, speakons are blue (and black) anyway :)

 

Sorry, I should have said 'supposed' to be...

 

I think domestic use plugs, 13A etc, are excluded from this. Ceeform/powercon (typically all blue vs. Speakon black and blue) was what I was sort of getting at - although I've come across plenty of black ceeforms and asked the same question....

[dirkenstein]

I think I've worked out why Neutrik explicitly states that Speakon connectors should not be used for mains connections, even though the connector is rated for it in both voltage and current, and why the connector could never gain VDE or UL approval for such a purpose.

 

It's not, oddly enough, the whole issue of jamming 230V up the back of a 4 ohm speaker. Otherwise there would have to be different versions of the IEC cold condition mains connector for 110V and 240V, with some sort of design that allowed 110V IEC leads to fit into 240V chassis plugs but not vice-versa. Generally, it seems to be considered acceptable that a user should be able to determine the voltage and power requirements of a device and choose the right supply for it, and that devices are allowed to go bang if supplied with twice their rated voltage.

 

It's really unlikely to be the disassembly without tools issue or a test finger issue. After all, both Powercon and Speakon connectors handle voltages above SELV and should thus be designed to protect against finger contact with live connectors and accidental disassembly, and both connectors are for non-domestic use, so the 'think of the children' argument should not really apply.

 

The problem is also unlikely to be contaminated surface leakage currents which are a particular VDE bugbear for mains connectors- the insulating material for Powercon and Speakons seems to be very similar and it would make no sense to design a connector that's rated for 250vac but then won't meet leakage current requirements for mains connectors.

 

The problem with speakons is that there are no distinct power source and power user connectors. Sockets are present on both amps and speakers and plugs are at both ends of the cable.

 

If the normal Speakon cable configuration were allowed for power distribution, it would permit the creation of widowmakers and short-circuit cables even with correctly made cables.

 

Consider a possible 13A -> speakon socket adapter. Use two of them, and a speakon plug->plug cable and you have a widowmaker. A non-obvious widowmaker, as the components are each completely safe when examined in isolation; even the Speakon plug-plug cable is completely touch-safe.

 

Even if speakon sockets were wired directly to a mains spur, with no possibility of accidental disconnection, Speakon plug-plug cables would be dangerous, as they could be plugged between two points on an existing supply network, creating undesirable circulating earth currents and similar problems.

 

Consider plugging a Speakon plug->plug cable between two imaginary Speakon mains sockets, connected to different phases, or on different unsynchronized generators. The results would likely be quite spectacular.

 

Although electrical professionals understand these issues, and could likely use these connectors in a safe manner under controlled conditions, they present enough of an issue for the casual user that there is no way that they should be allowed to be used for mains distribution. Just imagine yourself as faced with say, a pile of Speakon power supply leads flown in from the other side of stage for you to plug into an imaginary Speakon distro- can you guarantee that none of them have been plugged into an amp, a speaker, or another imaginary Speakon power socket on the other side of stage?

 

And as they can't be safely used for mains distribution, the argument for them being certified for any other mains power use is not very good. How do you explain to somebody that they're allowed to make a 13A->Speakon mains cable but not a Speakon->Speakon mains cable for daisy-chaining?

 

I can see argumets for getting away with using 8-way Speakons as combined mains and audio connectors under controlled conditions, as they're not that common on ordinary speakers and amps, but only for adapter cables, and definitely not for plug->plug cables.

[hadyn.williams]

Haha, that's brilliant! Completely forgot that speakon is of course plug to plug!

[scjb]

My god, and to think I spent years with 16A to speakon and 13A to speakon in the same tool box. How did I ever manage to survive... :)

[dbuckley]

Perhaps the obvious suggestion is a 16A ceeform with pilot connections, a/k/a the seven pins? Use the two pilot connections as DMX512, leaving the screen unconnected across the ceeforms. Each truck feed should be from an opto-isolated DMX splitter, so there are no bad effects possible back down the line, and for a totally isolated run the screen will be unimportant.

 

A Mennekes model 745 connector (socket on end of cable) and a 749 wall mount inlet are the blue ones rated at 16A.

[csg]

varilite s200 and s300 use amphenol connectors to carry power and data - look at amp 206708-1 for instance. I still run vl s200 kit, and these connectors cost me approx £8 each from rs, and require no special tools for assembly. They are also small, being approx the same size as an XLR connector and are mains rated.

[Tomo]

Also, Connectors have to be colour coded as to the voltage they carry EG: Blue 230V, yellow 110V etc

From where I'm sitting I can see dozens of 230V connectors. Most are black, some are grey, some are white, but none are blue. Also, speakons are blue (and black) anyway :)

Sorry, I should have said 'supposed' to be...

Still wrong.

The range of Ceeform circular connectors have a defined colour code for the various working voltages, but this is for the Ceeform range only.

 

It does not apply to any other range of connectors.

 

Finally, even in the special case of Ceeforms, you're still allowed black ones - they just need a small band of the relevant colour.

 

The reasoning behind this is to make it easier to spot the right one for your application.

They're physically sized and keyed so you can't use the wrong one, but it reduces the chance of annoyance if the purple socket takes the purple plug. (And yes, purple Ceeforms do exist. They are rather rare though)

[matt c]

yes, purple Ceeforms do exist. They are rather rare though

24V 50-60Hz if memory serves....

 

The mothership in Antwerp has a couple of them installed on the test station power panels.

 

What is interesting is that there is a definition for a black ceeform (that's not a 240V single phase with a tiny blue band on it), 500V at 50-60Hz, 3P & E.

 

There's greeen ones and white ones too, according to the wiki..

[niclights]

Something like the Trident or another Veam offering? Probably overspecced and will cost the earth but...

[J Pearce]

I have green for the pickle connections on the motorised tiered seating at work.

 

OT though...

 

When I was stage crew at Derby Playhouse I never had any trouble mating a DMX on 5pin XLR and mains on a 15/16A connector or on a few occasions a 3 way harting in a fast scene change.

 

Certainly I'd much rather have two push and click connectors than one locate then spin locking ring, as you'd have with a ceep or VL200 series type connector.

[Jivemaster]

Unless you really need a special lead and connector (and have the time to make tham and make spares) I'd use 16a ceeform and XLR for DMX very familiar to stage crew and easily replaced in case a lead gets damaged during the run. I would use the expensive 1.5mm^2 and DMX combined cable as ready made leads from CPC, or as cable by the metre from Terralec or AN Other. http://www.terralec.co.uk/power_cable/powe...le/18175_p.html

[Andrew C]

If it's not per manufacturers design, you're just supposed to do it!

Also, Connectors have to be colour coded as to the voltage they carry EG: Blue 230V, yellow 110V etc

1) Is that what you really mean? We've been talking about the need for accuracy elsewhere.

2) Bull.... When was the last time you saw a blue 13A plug?

[hadyn.williams]

We've been talking about the need for accuracy elsewhere.

Funnily enough I was thinking about my comments in this post while reading that one....

 

Normally I pose answers I'm not entirely sure on as questions - for some reason I didn't on this one... whoops.

 

as for 2) I actually posted later saying I thought 13A plugs (domestic) must be excluded from this - as it happens someone later corrected me saying it was only ceeforms.