Banned from Venue with no reason.

[oli]

As a licensed premises the Manager is allowed to bar anyone they like and does not have to give a reason, ...

Sorry but completely misses the point.

Does it?

Completely.

The ability of a manager/licensee to bar an individual has nothing to do with employees - casual or otherwise. That's there to give said manager protection against unrully or objectionable punters.

 

To 'bar' an employee, the management would need far stronger cause and evidence than simply that manager deciding that he didn't like the look of him/her or whatever.

 

Sorry Ynot I believe you are wrong, in a lot of licensed premises when a member of staff is fired or quits suddenly they are often barred from the premises. And as an ex-employee he is currently a member of the public that the Management believe to be objectionable.

[Brian]

...in a lot of licensed premises when a member of staff is fired or quits suddenly they are often barred from the premises. ...

Licensed premises or not has nothing to do with.

 

No one is disputing that the venue in question probably has the right to 'bar' anyone from coming onto their property. The discussion is about the background to this decision and how the OP can manage what is a difficult situation.

[oli]

I completely agree, my post was mainly aimed at the

Surely he can’t be the man who has all the power

remark, where unfortunately s/he does have charge of the day to day running of the venue.

 

It is a tricky situation and my only suggestion would be to phone the venue and explain your situation and if the venue manager is not interested then see if there is a higher authority (Executive Committee etc) that you can approach.

[erroneousblack]

Bit late to this, had had experience of a similar situation several years ago. The venue I was at, hac a spate of resignations, (some more vocal than others) and the CE swore they were banned for life. Two were coming back with tours and the visiting management were told they would have to provide replacement staff. They said fine as long as they were sacked for some form of gross misconduct, and the theatre covers the cost of their replacements and pay the wages of the original two for that week. The CE obviously baulked at this, and after persuing most legal avenues admitted defeat.

The third person was merely coming along as the boyfriend of one of the company, this led to the rather undignified spectacle of the visiting company stood in the alleyway outside the theatre for the last night party as he wasn't allowed in FOH.

[Guest lightnix]

I'm not sure how much value there is in doing this one to death if the OP isn't willing to contribute...

The OP was logged in this morning and reading this thread.

 

As he hasn't added anything further, maybe we should assume that he now has all the information and advice that he needs (even if it wasn't what he wanted to hear) :blink:

[Dave]

Thanks Nick.

 

One thing to mention is that there is a degree of public accountability in a local authority venue. If a manager is behaving in an unreasonable manner then you can always complain to someone further up the food chain, or to a councillor. Few managers are going to want the hassle of dealing with this just because someone annoyed them a couple of years ago. It would be hard to justify a permanent ban unless they'd done something bad (theft, damage, asssault, H&S, etc).

 

A privately-owned theatre is much more likely to say that so-and-so has caused trouble and if our manager says he's banned, then he's banned. They are a private venue and it's up to them who they allow onto the premises (discrimination notwithstanding).

 

But in both situations, if the booking agreement doesn't give the venue a right of veto over the crew, then it's a big grey area.

 

I did wonder what might happen if the banned technician was due to return to the venue as a cast member in a show. (Stranger things have been known!). Would the venue behave in the same way? I'm not sure it would.

[Alpha]

... I got a P45 and am now being told I can never work at the theatre again.

 

Now someone correct me if I am totaly wrong here, but does that not just look like they are saying they don't want to employ him out of their own money, but would likly not say anything if he returned under the responsibility of someone else? Because what I've read does not say to me, "DO NOT RETURN THE THE PREMISES EVER!"

[Seano]

As he hasn't added anything further, maybe we should assume that he now has all the information and advice that he needs (even if it wasn't what he wanted to hear)

 

Or, given that his troubles stem from an indiscreet email, perhaps he's learning and now regrets starting this thread. Under the circumstances, a public whinge about his 'ban' isn't likely to help matters much after all. If he has any sense at all he'll be asking the mods/admin very nicely for this whole thread to just quietly disappear.

[Jivemaster]

--or found others on here who have a balanced (or differently balanced) first hand knowledge of the situation.

 

I've said before -Your tutor may be on here, your next interviewer may be on here.

[StephenC]

Hi Thanks for all your comment, still reading them, Sorry not been able to respond had no access to internet for last couple of days,

 

how it all happened was I did say that if my time sheet was not fixed in time and made it to the offices before pay day I would have to stop accepting work there as I was at the time only working with them, I have another venue close by where I get better pay and its always payed the following week, with the theatre it is munthley which meant I would have to wait before paying off any of my bills so I needed money.

 

I use to publish my availability on the internet and I give managers the ability to see if im free before they call me. at this theatre they did not check if it was alright they just emailed me or gave me a sheet with what they wanted me to work, Other places email me and ask me to say if I want it but I hadto say to them if I could not do it.

 

I got offered a job deal with them before any of this started. They said they could offer me 40 hours a week eaven if it was quiet but in return I had to quit any other jobs I had, as I was already doing around 50 hours a week when they made me that offer I turned it down.

 

Here is the order in which it all happened.

 

I made verbal complaints to the Tech Manager and Assistant and said if I did not get paid I could not continue doing the hours they were giving me,

 

Pay day came and I had no money, They then looked at my sheet and said I would get paid next month. Also they deducted hours from my sheet to make it fit into the time policy better, If there is a policy they should not give me those hours,

all hours I worked were what I was told to do by the Tech or assistant manager,

 

A few days after the new time sheet was sent in and I was told I had to wait I sent this email. stating facts about the way the calls were being handled, the inexperienced staff causing me problems and meaning in any problem there was nothing they could do,

I said I would not be back and accept any calls untill paid and said things should be looked at like training for the new staff, (Duty tech who does not eaven know the fire exit from stage or how to change a lamp)

I saw the theatre manager the next day who admitted there were problems with the way it was all being run and said he would look at the matters. He told me he would see me in a couple of weeks and try to sort it out.

I never heard back from him and any time I tryed to call he was not in,

I then went in about 8 or 9 weeks later to see a show, met up with the old crew and found a lot of new crew.

I tryed to talk to the manager that night but he said he was busy and would talk to me soon,

next I got a P45 with a note saing that they understand I no longer wish to work there.

When I tryed to ask the manager I got am email saying If I dont like working there its best if I leave, I tryed to re peat that it was only theat I was not paid and I did enjoy working there.

I then went away and worked out of town for a while. when I got back I was asked if I wanted to crew on an amiture show there where most the crew are theatre staff who just dont clock in for those shows. I went in for the dress rehersal then got a message the next night saying the manager does not want me to crew this show.

now hes found out that I am working on this tour he has told my director that Im not allowed in,

 

He has never seen me since giving me the P45, only comunication is through email which is nealy every time "Refer to my previous email" which has never given me a reason as to why I am not alloued in.

if it was my choice to leave as he stated then why cant I go in with anyone else.

[gareth]

The OP was logged in this morning and reading this thread.

Sorry not been able to respond had no access to internet for last couple of days

:huh:

 

We're only hearing one side of this saga, so maybe ... just maybe ... there's a bit more to it than we're aware of. Stephen, I'm not suggesting for a moment that you're being in any way untruthful with us - I'm sure you're not. But when all is said and done, when it comes to a story like this I don't think it's really possible for anyone so closely involved with it to be completely objective and put forward the facts in a neutral, unbiased way.

 

It strikes me that there's a subtle distinction between someone having their employment terminated by an employer for whatever reason, and that person being banned from ever setting foot in the premises again (which sounds as though it's the case here).

 

if it was my choice to leave as he stated then why cant I go in with anyone else.

Precisely. Why? Without knowing the answer to that question, it seems a bit pointless to be speculating on the circumstances surrounding this.

[rooftop]

I think there's probably enough information here for the OP to decide what to do next.

 

If he wishes to push it further with his ex-employer then on the face of it there are a couple of employment rights issues -

 

a) he wasn't paid all of the money due to him

b) he could have been dismissed without good reason (although the contents of "the email" might have been sufficiently convincing as a non-intentional resignation letter)

 

However, I do feel there is more to this and on the flip side, there could be some unresolved disciplinary matters that we are not being made aware of.

 

Whether the lifetime ban is "fair" or not is also dependant on the above.

 

Only OP knows if this dead horse is worthy of flogging, and if it is, his union rep or the HR Department has to be the first phone call.

[paulears]

Stephen - I've read your latest post and even allowing for a purely textual explanation of the processes - you do say some very strange things.

 

They said they could offer me 40 hours a week eaven if it was quiet but in return I had to quit any other jobs I had, as I was already doing around 50 hours a week when they made me that offer I turned it down.

 

They offered you a permanent 40 hour a week job, but in return wanted your dedication to this job, and it's quite reasonable to expect you to only work for them. That's what most permanent jobs require. You turned it down. This is your right, but in their position, I'd take that as an indication that you weren't willing to commit to them.

 

I made verbal complaints to the Tech Manager and Assistant and said if I did not get paid I could not continue doing the hours they were giving me,

You spoke to two senior people about the issue. Speaking to the assistant and asking him to pass it on is fine. Speaking to the boss is fine. Speaking to both won't be appreciated when they talked about you.

sent this email. stating facts about the way the calls were being handled, the inexperienced staff causing me problems and meaning in any problem there was nothing they could do,

I said I would not be back and accept any calls untill paid and said things should be looked at like training for the new staff, (Duty tech who does not eaven know the fire exit from stage or how to change a lamp) [

First really bad move. Bosses who don't already think much of you, rarely like to be told they are doing it wrong.

 

I saw the theatre manager the next day who admitted there were problems with the way it was all being run and said he would look at the matters. He told me he would see me in a couple of weeks and try to sort it out.I never heard back from him and any time I tryed to call he was not in,

Typical comment from them - said to make you think they are doing something - the clue was when from then on he was 'out'. The management have decided you are trouble.

 

I tryed to talk to the manager that night but he said he was busy and would talk to me soon,

next I got a P45 with a note saing that they understand I no longer wish to work there.

he was busy avoiding you, and didn't want a scene, so next day sacked you.

When I tryed to ask the manager I got am email saying If I dont like working there its best if I leave, I tryed to re peat that it was only theat I was not paid and I did enjoy working there.

You tried to talk to them again, even though they'd made it pretty clear they'd had enough - so they said if you don't like it here, go away - and you responded nicely (but rather late)

 

They seem to have made it clear that they simply don't wish to talk to you, and as you do have a habit of buttonholing people and giving them grief, is it any wonder they don't want you in the building - if I worked somewhere where an ex-employee kept trying to talk to me and cause me grief, I'd simply say to the bosses - I don't want this bloke around

- he's trouble.

 

You could be the nicest bloke around, but your way of managing the problem seems centred on confrontation, and telling your superiors why you are right and they are wrong. You slag off one of the other staff - and perhaps this person is a nice chap who never causes trouble?

 

In most businesses management can have choices. Very competent people, who have communication or personality issues. Many bosses put up with these because the benefits outweigh the disadvantages - but at some point, the bad will and bolshyness just get too much and the benefit to the place in general from getting rid of these people outweighs the skills. Nobody is indispensible nowadays. Have you ever seen venue staff who seem to be a bit limited in their technical skills, but are there for years? It's because they are reliable, quiet and never cause the bosses grief. You always come across others who just wind you up so much you hope they will be gone when you go there next time, and very often they have indeed gone.

 

When I was younger, I'm sure that I really annoyed the bosses. Then I became one and found out how difficult people like me actually are. Now I've got to the state where status doesn't bother me, and I can be the boss on one project and the other end of the scale on the next, I try to be as nice and helpful as I can, never giving the bosses any trouble.

 

 

In your case, you could do all sorts - even possibly trying an unfair dismissal claim. But is it really worth it?

[StephenC]

I need to do something, if I dont I wont be able to return with my current companey on fucture tours or apply for tours that visit that theatre.

I find it odd who in the early days I was only fired but when he found out I was working for another companey on a tour he changed it to Im not alloued to work there.

 

He is not eaven who most the complaints were about, it was mainley about the tech manager. the tech manager left shortley after. I have worked as a freelancer with the old tech manager since then and found he recomended me for the job after I had made the complaint and left. we still get on and I see him on jobs where we are still friends.

 

I am very confused how one man has so much power in the council to ban me and he still has never given me a reason, all he said is if I dont want to work there I should not.

I have only been trying to contact him since he said I cannot work. up to then I was under the beleef he was still ok with me. I eaven said my current tour could ask him for a refrence last year before I knew he would not let me in.

 

up to the time of my complaint I had never caused any problems and had done all work asked.

 

I turned down the job offer from them because it was going to be unoffishial, Ie. if they changed there mindes I would end up with nothing. I did say that they could have first choice and ile dothere work above any one else but I was not ending my contracts else ware.

 

My friend who was made to be the duty tech has now left the theatre and stoped working in theatre full stop. they only worked the calls because they were secduled for them. they did not want to turn them down as they needed the money.

 

Ive got to go now long day tomorrow, but will be back on monday.

[paulears]

I think we all do feel for you - it's obvious you really feel bad about this, and from your point of view you can't understand the injustice. I really think that having a problem with a single venue doesn't really matter - and a dep for this venue would be good for many reasons. It's obvious that for whatever reason, they don't like you. Fair or not - nothing you can do about it, and to keep trying will make it even worse.

 

Forget it - move on. This person may not be there for ever. Maybe, you should have kept quiet and just turned up with the show? Bringing it up in advance may have been a bad move. I fell out with a technical manager at a venue. I thought this was terminal. Two years later I went in to do some consultation. The bloke had gone, and nobody even remembered me. Did I bring it up to remind them I was the fella John Smith had a huge row with? Of course not. Speaking to the manager, last year, I did mention the problem technical manager. He knew perfectly well who I was, and that the big arguement had happened, and had chosen to ignor it. So I knew and he knew and it was just unimportant.

 

If you just shut up and stop bringing it up, I'm sure it will just go away. It's very much like troublesome members here. If they keep being a problem, then their bad reputation grows. If, however, after an 'incident' they just keep a low profile, we very often forget all about them and it's sometimes a surprise when we come across references to their 'past'. In your case, almost everything you did to right the wrong, backfired and made things worse - effectively meaning that whenever you appear at the venue they all go "Oh no". You have to give it a chance to get forgotten about.