Banned from Venue with no reason.

[StephenC]

I worked as a casual technician for over 3 years at my local council owned theatre.

 

Two years ago I made a complaint about the way the technical department was being run, we had a new tech Manager who was trying his best but being told what to do by the Artistic Director, I ended up doing to many hours for the councils working time policy so the technical manager reduced my hours to fit there policy, this meant I lost out on over 30 hours worth of pay. I said the time sheet needed fixing before pay day or I wont accept any more work.

 

No pay so I cancelled one call I had and refused any more. I also sent in am email to all technicians and the Artistic Director explaining why I was not coming in any more and also saying how they should fix things. Having inexperienced staff as Duty Technician or people who can only operate a spot on a build.

 

I was told that they would go through my comments and get back to me, Instead I got a P45 and am now being told I can never work at the theatre again.

 

I am now Technical Manager on a Tour which visits that venue in a couple fo weeks, my director had had a call from the Artistic Director (Now also the theatre director) saying he wont let me work on the production which leaves me and my company problems of how to produce a show when I’m there technician.

 

Any advice on how I can get back into the theatre to do this show. Surely he can’t be the man who has all the power. Is there any thing I can do.

[Ben]

I also sent in am email to all technicians and the Artistic Director...

 

 

You have managed to dig your own grave, you never have the right to email round like this and you are lucky as they could have seen the email as liable and sued you. Also could have seen it as deformation of character about the other people you were talking about.

 

Your only chance is to apologise and ask them if there is a way round this but to say you were banned for no reason is certainly not correct you were in the wrong writing an email like that.

[Ynot]

Hmmm...

Not necessarily.

It all depends on the content of the mail.

Whilst

I also sent in am email to all technicians and the Artistic Director explaining why I was not coming in any more

is certainly a wise move in many ways - after all, some staff may have expected him on duty - the second part

... saying how they should fix things. Having inexperienced staff as Duty Technician or people who can only operate a spot on a build.

.. may possibly have overstepped a touch, though if only facts were quoted, then it cannot be deemed to be libel.

 

Now, as to whether the venue director should or even could ban the OP from the theatre, that may bear closer examination. As an employer, he/she had rights certainly to give or refuse work for any casual. However, as the OP is now employed by someone else, ie the touring company, I'd say that the situation is far from black and white.

 

The solution, I would say, is in the hands of the touring show management to resolve with the venue - ie if the venue wants this tour through their doors, then the venue should really accept it with whatever cast and crew the tour employs. Any objections to individuals should be moot UNLESS the venue manager can provide solid and viable reasons why they have those objections. I see it as rather unprofessional of the venue manager to nake the stipulation - though of course we don't have all the facts...

[gareth]

A few things spring immediately to mind after reading that ...

 

1) No-one's indispensible.

 

2) Sometimes standing up for yourself is good, but there are other times when it's better to keep your mouth shut.

 

3) It's a very small business, this one - there's every chance that if you seriously piss someone off, it'll come back and bite you on the arse in the future.

 

All of the above I suspect you now realise!

 

However ... 4) I fail to see how someone within the management team of a venue is in any position to dictate to a touring company who they may, or may not, employ on their production. Maybe if it was someone who had been dismissed from the 'host' venue in the past for gross misconduct - perhaps theft, or sexual harassment, or some other sort of criminal activity - then they might be able to make a case. However, a manager saying that they don't want someone working on a visiting production just because they don't like them - well, I'm sure any half-decent lawyer would be able to go through the contract that exists between the venue management and your producing management and put that one to bed before it even becomes an issue.

[rooftop]

Heh heh, the production you are now managing comes to us in a few weeks, but I don't think it was me that gave you your P45...

 

...which is however an interesting point - casual staff employed in local authority controlled venues usually have more rights than they think. They are, in fact usually classified as "temporary part-time" not "casual". As such, there are some important employment rights, and I would say receiving your P45 in the post without asking for it (i.e. resigning) isn't one of them!

 

Now, this may be completely academic (in so far as you don't want to work there again) but it could put the ball back in your court and put the theatre director (who presumably told HR to terminate you) on a sticky wicket.

 

A call to the HR dept might be in order to ascertain what reason was given for your P45, and maybe to ask a few questions about it. I'm sure a Union Rep would love to get his teeth into this too.

 

Of course (and forgive me for saying) but there could be more to this than meets the eye - we have legitimately sacked a member of staff and I would be very uncomfortable about having him back in the venue on a touring show.

[paulears]

I've twice now gone into venues with people on my team I'm happy with, only to discover that the venue really didn't want them to be there. However, in both cases, despite quiet words with me to explain the facts, they made no attempt to get them removed - although despite being local to the venue, they would not get any work from them direct as casuals. In one example, it sounds similar - and in the other the problem seems to be an excessively PC venue and a very non-PC ex-casual. The venues accepted the fact that they'd have to put up with it. I guess the only example where it would be appropriate would be if dismissal was on gross misconduct, where there could possibly be a danger in having that person back. I'm thinking security issues, theft, sexual misconduct - that kind of serious, possibly legal stuff - NOT p1ssing off the management.

 

 

However, saying that - what Gareth says is pretty important. As many jobs are by recommendation, getting a bad name for yourself can be VERY destructive, career wise.

[JazzAV]

Maybe the director is just annoyed with you, maybe you need to eat a bit of humble pie, drop him a note, give him a call...tell him what he wants to hear and see if you can get him to chill out a bit. More confrontation may just be cutting off your nose to spite your face.

[Bryson]

Hi Stephen,

 

I can see where you're coming from, but I think the root cause of all of this is how you reacted to the pay situation.

Can I ask: did you decide to work all of those hours, or did the TM schedule you for them?

Did you ask the TM what would happen to the "missing" hours? What was the answer?

Why did you move to a stance of refusing work so quickly?

Had you shared your thoughts with the TM in a constructive manner prior to this?

 

I think you need to be careful: the email and your subsequent actions would pretty easily be interpreted as gross insubordination, and a perfectly valid reason to send you your P45. It's always better to talk these situations through than to throw your toys out of the pram and issue hard ultimatums.

 

Either way, what's done is done. I can see why the venue would be concerned to have a disgruntled former member of staff coming to the venue. But the situation is fixable. I would suggest that you call the Technical Manager, and the Theatre Director and discuss the situation with them. Say that while you still don't agree with what happened, you have a new job now and you would like to do it. Assure them that you won't be difficult, cause problems or behave beligerently. And then make sure you aren't!

 

If you talk to them reasonably and make assurances that the history between you will not affect the running of this show, they should allow you to do the show and move on.

[drsound]

I think Bryson may have hit the nail on the head with your original complaint. IF (and it's a big assumption of course) you decided off your own bat without direction from your line manager to do overtime then the company has no obligation to pay you for that unless your contract was worded such that you were able to authorise your own OT (unlikely).

 

To play devil's advocate, his position might then have been that you'd taken the OT without permission. While he was trying to sort it out (in his eyes anyway) you then sent a potentially defamatory and libellous email around the staff. He could, and probably did, deem this to be gross misconduct for which you can be sacked without notice under most contracts. If you've seriously embarrassed the guy by making it clear that you think he's incompetent then I can understand why he might not have had a very charitable view towards you.

 

However you have a right to be told why you are being dismissed and I would imagine that their disciplinary procedure allows for you to put your own side across. If they have breached their own procedure then you might just have a case for unfair dismissal.

 

Anyway, to get back to original topic, whether they can ban you from the venue very much depends on the wording of their contract between the venue and your production. They might have a catch-all phrase in there that prevents them from accepting anyone whom they deem to be unsafe or unfit to work in the venue. At a stretch they might be able to ban you under a clause like this.

 

Even if you're in the right contractually it might make it virtually impossible to work with them if there is bad blood. Most of us probably know the feeling of arriving in a venue to be met by a smug self-satisfied 'Technical Manager' whose only role in life is to prevent you putting gaffa on the stage and checking the one bit of safety legislation he thinks he knows (PAT testing and badly understood LOLER seem to be the favourites at the moment!). Sadly the best approach is often to pander to them and do your best to please them since they're also possibly the only one who knows how to reset the dimmers half way through the first act when it all goes horribly wrong.

[nateflips]

I worked as a casual technician for over 3 years at my local council owned theatre.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you were a casual employee then the venue is not obliged to offer you any work at all. As for "reducing" your hours, if you don't have contracted hours then there was nothing you could do.

[Big Jay]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you were a casual employee then the venue is not obliged to offer you any work at all. As for "reducing" your hours, if you don't have contracted hours then there was nothing you could do

 

My casual contract says, you are required to work the hours given as and when given, meaning if we have a job we'll give you a call, there is such a thing as a permenant casual. I.E, guaranteed get-ins/out's but obviously the hours depend on the event and cannot be contracted. In my view if there is overtime you are payed for it but only if you are asked to by your line manager, if you stay around and you are not asked to then thats your choice but dont expect to be paid for work you were not asked to do.

[Rob_Beech]

Surely a permanent casual is an employee, which changes lots?

[Big Jay]

Surely a permanent casual is an employee, which changes lots?

 

Then what is a casual? Either way being a permanant casual or just a casual, you are still a employee, you still get your p60 from the company every year.

 

Either way, I dont want to argue about it, im sure you no what you are talking about.

[Ynot]

Surely a permanent casual is an employee, which changes lots?

 

Then what is a casual? Either way being a permanant casual or just a casual, you are still a employee, you still get your p60 from the company every year.

 

Either way, I dont want to argue about it, im sure you no what you are talking about.

Argument, no - discuss, probably. :D

 

A casual is someone who gets work, well, on a casual basis. I get occasional calls into the Hippodrome in Brum, which I can either accept or turn down, depending upon my circumstances.

 

A regular casual is someone who gets called, well, regularly, because he/she probably accepts more than they turn down.

 

I'd say that a 'permanent casual' is a contradiction, as it implies a regular commitment whilst still having the ability to say 'no' when called. I suspect it's just a mixup in terms.

[rooftop]

In terms of local authority precedents, anyone who has a fairly regular rota pattern (say one gig a week/fortnight) is more than casual. It works retrospetively, so say, look at shift pattern over last 12 months. These people are then classified as temporary part-time.

 

With us, our "casuals" (who fall into the above category and are actually temporary part-timers) have to request time off in advance of the rota being published. Otherwise they are expected to work.

 

We have other "casuals", like Ynot, who work one shift a month (or whatever) who we call up and ask if they can work a particular shift.

 

The fact that StephenC racked up an excess of hours tells me he was more than a casual.