Tell me what bugs you....

[Orchytech]

Your lift intended for steel deck is the correct size for steel deck!

 

 

There is enough space on the rail  to fit a lamp on the bar (same church)

 

 

Working light controls are repeated at the exit for when you lock up at night.

Brand new converted Church Venue. Opens this week :P

 

All of the above apply.

 

30 bits of staging that don't quite fit in the lift. Upright or horizontal. Guess we could always carry three or four at a time diagonally. <_<

 

The whole world is out to preventing me from hanging a lantern from the gantry rails. (Too many problems to list.) ;)

 

Work lights at the furthest possible point from the lock up door and their always left on when is me to lock up. :** laughs out loud **:

 

Still mustn't grumble. Now if only I could find where the 32amp single phase supply that's live and labeled on the dis board, goes too! The install spakry can't remember and its not on the plans. :** laughs out loud **:

[Bryson]

Good good good....

 

 

I'm surprised Orchytech didn't take the opportunity to comment on my personal habits too.... :** laughs out loud **:

 

So: Some questions for you all:

 

DMX: Inputs: 4 in control room, 4 in rear of auditorium: Outputs: I have one going SL, one going SR, one going FOH and one going to the dimmers. Now; should I put a socket and link lead in at the dimmer end? Rather than hardwiring straight in? I was thinking for occasions like: dimmers break down (for whatever reason) and you bung a touring rack in for the meantime, just unplug the DMX link lead and connect to the touring rack. Problem would be that idiots will unplug the bloody thing... <_<

 

Flying: Architect has granted me a Flytower...I wasn't really expecting that they would give me one. Now this place is going to primarily be for amateur/youth usage (professionally supervised) and won't have very big sets etc in it. I was thinking, for reasons of cost and simplicity, to put the LX bars on and winches and put some hemp sets in for cloths and borders. Or I could put in some (less) counterweight sets (double purchase). Opinions?

 

Re: Spiders: I have an irrational hatred of spider-based control panels. I would rather have a panel with every socket on it, and plug in individual cables. Does that make me odd/mad? ;)

 

Control Room windows: What would consider to be the minimum acceptable size? (Cost reasons) Currently they're specc'd as sliding and/or removeable. You like?

 

 

Gorgeous.

 

B

[Tom]

I was thinking, for reasons of cost and simplicity, to put the LX bars on and winches and put some hemp sets in for cloths and borders.  Or I could put in some (less) counterweight sets (double purchase).  Opinions?

Problem with LX bars on winches is it ties you to where you can rig LX.

[Thirdtap]

DMX link in dimmer room. I think is a good idea as you mention for touring rigs but also if something like a dimmer breaks down you could put a hire unit in maybe? Dependant on hard wired lighting. What about putting the link behind a lockable box? Or even a box that you need to remove screws from to gain access?

 

Fly tower - Who will be operating the flying system?

I would spec winches for lights as they won't have to move quickly.

Counter weight even with less bars how much space are you going to have in the grid? Is it going to be double height? If not I would look at winches for set / scenery bars. If you can't fly them out these will mainly be used for tab tracks.

 

Have you asked your entertainment license department about prferences?

As I have mentioned before maintenance and servicing.

 

Finally control room windows if sound may be operated from this room I would suggest that the window is high enough so standing up you still get an unobstructed pathway. To explain I used to work ina venue with an area that was fine when you were sitting down but when you stand up the top of the window frame was about 15cm too low and blocked some of the sound.

 

Just a thought most projects run out of money at some point and things have to get cut. I would prioritise items and put items such as lanterns at the bottom of the list. Should money run out lanterns can always get borrowed or hired in where as having only half the intended fly lines in may cause more of a hassle. I know that cutting 10 source 4 profiles will not save huge amounts of money.

[Ian Ferguson]

Just a thought most projects run out of money at some point and things have to get cut. I would prioritise items and put items such as lanterns at the bottom of the list. Should money run out lanterns can always get borrowed or hired in where as having only half the intended fly lines in may cause more of a hassle. I know that cutting 10 source 4 profiles will not save huge amounts of money.

I would go a step further, make sure that everything you need is budgeted for but when the building contract is negotiated remove all items that are not bolted to the building (lanterns, control desk, speakers etc.) from the specifiation and keep them as a budgeted sum that will be purchased by yourselves and put into the building. This will mean that when the building is built you can ensure that the equipment going into it is up to date and you can buy from anywhere.

 

Often the electrical contractor who gets the contract for a new building is not a specialist contractor and does not have access to the best prices for specialist equipment.

 

Also make sure that any variations that are requested during building works are quoted before the go ahead is given.

[Dave]

Just a few points:

DMX:  Inputs:  4 in control room, 4 in rear of auditorium: Outputs: I have one going SL, one going SR, one going FOH and one going to the dimmers.  Now; should I put a socket and link lead in at the dimmer end?  Rather than hardwiring straight in? I was thinking for occasions like: dimmers break down (for whatever reason) and you bung a touring rack in for the meantime, just unplug the DMX link lead and connect to the touring rack.  Problem would be that idiots will unplug the bloody thing... <_<

DMX outputs on the bars make the use of movers/scrollers a lot easier (apologies if someone has already mentioned this).

 

Having somewhere you can put extra/replacement dimmers is always a good idea. The location obviously needs a DMX out and a juicy mains supply. You will probably want need a way of getting the additional dimmer outputs into your fixed wiring, which will need careful consideration.

 

Have you considered whether having one dimmer per socket is practical? Mains patches are bulky, messy, and not that cheap.

 

One other thing I would add on the LX side is have a decent number of sockets at stage level for booms. I used 32 PARs for side lx on the last dance performance I lit, and it was a bit awkward to get enough circuits for them all, even running two per dimmer. Having socket boxes (or socapex outputs) at high level is also an option.

 

Flying:  Architect has granted me a Flytower...I wasn't really expecting that they would give me one.  Now this place is going to primarily be for amateur/youth usage (professionally supervised) and won't have very big sets etc in it.  I was thinking, for reasons of cost and simplicity, to put the LX bars on and winches and put some hemp sets in for cloths and borders.  Or I could put in some (less) counterweight sets (double purchase).  Opinions?

As Thirdtap said, to fly things properly you must have enough height to the grid. Do check this as there's no guarantee the architect will have got it right! I can think of at least one local authority venue (relatively new) where they really could have done with a few more feet.

 

The counterweight issue is interesting. Given the size of the venue, as well as its main use, I would tend to give this a miss. Most amateurs won't have a clue! If you envisage lots of different shows with quick turn-rounds, having electric winches on the LX bars will make moving lanterns around a lot easier.

 

However, you should consider if having counterweight flying will bring in more bookings. In a 250 seat venue, I think that's unlikely.

 

Generally, I would agree completely with those who have said that the fixed infrastructure (with scope for additions) should have higher priority than extras like lots of lanterns.

 

One thing I would add is that getting cheap and nasty gear should be avoided like the plague. "Buy once, cry once" is a good motto! The performance and reliability of much "budget" equipment leaves a lot to be desired.

 

Dave.

[Bryson]

I would go a step further, make sure that everything you need is budgeted for but when the building contract is negotiated remove all items that are not bolted to the building (lanterns, control desk, speakers etc.) from the specifiation and keep them as a budgeted sum that will be purchased by yourselves and put into the building. This will mean that when the building is built you can ensure that the equipment going into it is up to date and you can buy from anywhere.

 

It's a good idea, and what I wanted to do, but sadly, contractual obligations made before I was involved have put paid to that.

[Gilly]

DMX - We have 2 DMX lines going from our C/Room to the dimmer room.

 

Line 1 = Dimmers

Line 2 = DMX Splitter to lines 1=FOH bridge 2

2 = FOH bridge 1

3 = Front of Circle

4 = DSR

5= SL Flyfloor (Opposite side to LX plug up :** laughs out loud **: )

 

And they are never in the right places.

 

Flying - I agree with the comments made that winches for LX positions make positions restrictive. Counterweight sets have a much greater level of versatility allbeit at a much greater cost. If you can stretch to counterweights, and you decide to go that way, we had an excellent installation done by AJS. (will try to refrain from plugging suppliers in future, but they were/are very good <_< )

 

LX - All our dimmers are hardwired to socket outlets (16A Ceeform/Soca), with some paralleling(think thats good spelling ;) ) Although some of the positions, ie. front of the circle are rarely used, so we end up running lots of cable around the building, because these are circuits that noticebly don't appear anywhere else. My point being if you are having your dimmers hardwired to outlets, making them appear in completely different ends of the theatre may not be as mad as it sounds!

[Bryson]

Ok: A biggie:

 

15a or 16a?

 

 

Yes: I know 16a is preferred these days: but: It makes hiring equipment a bit of a drag, and also borrowing stuff from our other venues (2 of) a ######, too.

 

Opinions please:

[peter]

15A would be my preference - if the venue is aimed at amdrams, they're most likely to have come across 15A systems.

[Ian Ferguson]

Ok: A biggie:

 

15a or 16a?  

30 years ago there was the same debate about three in line connectors and 15 amp, how many venues have three in line connectors now?

 

At the moment the wiring regulations specifiy 15a as a theatre connector, I wonder how long they will afford that protection to it.

 

There are only two companies still manufacturing 15a in any quantities, the number of 15a connectors they make is microscopic in comparison to 13a and 16a, therefore the price of 15a connectors is not as competitive.

 

At the moment there is little to choose between them, but in 5-10 years time anyone who chose to be wired or re-wired in 15a will, I think, wish that they had gone to 16a.

 

You mention hire companies, many have changed to 16a, most use both 15a and 16a.

 

Of course if you choose multipin connectors you can have spiders or stage boxes to either and keep your options open.

[Guest Stuart B]

Ok: A biggie:

 

15a or 16a?

Our sister venue (local authority) has just had a refit and was forced by our local authority to have 16a. There was no compulsion on the venue converting all their tackle, though: they now have boxes and boxes of little 16 > 15 tails...

 

I wonder if having all one's gear on 16a would make it less likely to grow legs?

[andy_s]

personal view - 15A is nice and black - aesthetically pleasing (to my eyes at least), doesn't stick out of the wall so far, has much neater ways of grelco-ing doubles or trebles, and I'm very set in my ways. 16A on the other hand, is bright blue (usually), quite difficult to rig discretely and tidily, and has nasty springy bits which show a great prediliction for eating human flesh - or at least scraping the skin off my knuckles! The advice from our consultants is that 15A bits and pieces will be available for the foreseeable future - I suppose you could compare "foreseeable" to the length of a piece of string....

In support of my preference, I do know people in 16A houses who detest it. I'm also not really a fan of "boxes of adapters" - one more link in the chain to fault-find.

(these are not necessarily the views of the management)

[Ian Ferguson]

16A on the other hand, is bright blue

 

The advice from our consultants is that 15A bits and pieces will be available for the foreseeable future - I suppose you could compare "foreseeable" to the length of a piece of string....

16A connectors are available in black in such a way that when the plug and socket are connected there is only a little blue showing to identify the cable as 240v.

 

"Foreseeable" for a manufacturer is I suspect much less than it is when you are waiting for the funding for a major rewire.

 

It wasn't that long ago that Duraplug showed no signs of dropping the 5A rubber flex socket, but they don't make one now.

[JohnK]

It wasn't that long ago that Duraplug showed no signs of dropping the 5A rubber flex socket, but they don't make one now.

 

 

Really? When did that happen?

 

John