Where to find second hand kit

[James]

I'm looking for a new PA, (well my budget won't stretch quite to new, so second hand will have to do)

 

Apart from LMC, Bonza & Concerttrade.com can anyone sugest anyone else selling on old PA kit.

 

I'm looking for reasonably high SPL for indoor crowds of about 300 people, idealy something I can augument if more money arrives later to cover 500 people indoors (or the occational outdoor though those normaly require much lower SPL)

 

At the moment I mostly end up doing rock and hiphop for some reason, though this changes fairly regularly, the rock is generaly fairly vocal lead so idealy something not too screetchily opressive in the top end, and hiphop just wants bass so heavy you can butter your toast with it and regurgitate it the next morning.

 

I've been off listening to some old Lab-Q's and wondering how I would man handle them into place without handles, and looking at some court syle folded dual 15 subs sans drivers trying to guess what they would sound like, I'm sure they might do the job if I'm desperate it's just the though of throwing arround 4'x3' boxes is a bit excessive (and hard on the stairs)

 

I don't have much to spend on this so am looking in the very low 4 digit mark.

 

If anyone knows of anything or anyone trying to get rid of anything then I would be greatfuly appreciative, (Just remember to remind me how appreciative I am when it's my round at the ABTT meet.)

 

 

James

 

PS, Uming and Arr ing about if this is sound or clasified, but the classified forum has the tendancy to be a bit of a ghetto, (It's right at the bottom of my browser window and I have to remember to scroll down to look at it) so I thought I would try here, but I don't mind if it get's moved. And I'm not selling anything!!

[Big Dave]

Keep an eye on Bob Kelly. Although most of the stuff listed on there are big systems, there occasionally items on there which the seller will split and you might be lucky and get a bargin!

[Dave]

Sorry, don't have time to do links, but also try:

 

Bonza Sound Services

Crystal Pro Audio

Glenn Smith Audio

Savage Audio

Thames Audio

Theatre Audio

 

Many hire companies also sell ex-rental gear

 

And, of course, there's Loot and Ebay

[Pete McCrea]

www.sse-hire.co.uk have a for sale section. They are often selling old hire stock. Might get some Nexo Alpha or PS series stuff.

[Pete Alcock]

Hi James,

 

You don't mention whether you've already got amps for the new boxes or whether they are in your budget also. I suspect you'll struggle getting stacks and racks for the figure you mention.

 

Ray and Captain at Bonza are real gents and have some very interesting boxes in stock that are not too dear. Check out Bonza Web Page for the latest list.

 

They have some JBL 2226 15" drivers at the moment, that actually came out of Court boxes. Whether they were the folded horns or not, you'd have to check, and the drivers are £165 a pop. Those boxes do sound horribly un-portable though. How's your transport situation?

 

You could always go the "new-but-budget" route. The Behringer boxes ain't bad, and for that money they're very good indeed. You could afford several! (2 x 18s plus 2, 12"+1" boxes either side for about £1200. They do rock with decent amps.

 

Good luck,

 

Pete.

[James]

I can't believe I'm doing this but I'm actually considering the Behringer boxes. They would be much more portable than huge boxes. OK I would need at least 3 stacks per side to get the same as the bug court boxes but it would be a similar price point.

 

Pete, (or anyone) do you have any direct experience of them in a specific application, and if so how did they do?

 

I've a number of gigs lined up this year where they would get used.

 

Just an example of the uses I would think of putting them to

• Simple conference, (1 stack per side as my SX300 / SB121 rig is elsewhere)
  
• 300 people rock gig (3 stacks centre subs? 4 SX300's as monitors)
  
• Outdoor PA, distributed system with small Jaz group playing background music, 6 tops on sticks with 4 SX300's on sticks covering 2-3000 people (low SPL)
  
• Small Rock / Hiphop gigs 75 people (1 stack per side, possibly an extra sub if needed)
  
• Wedding party. Music replay only. 200 people, probably only 2 stacks per side.
  
• {Unconfirmed}Festival style new years party, 12 hours, lots of bands from rock to celtic to DJ's, Potentialy up to 500 people. (Would use 6 SX300's as monitors)
  

Cheers guys,

 

James

[Pete Alcock]

Hi James,

 

In reply to your post, I have used them in several of the situations you suggest.

 

Simple conference - absolutely fine. Just 'kin heavy to get on to tripods on your own.

 

Outdoors - Did an event in the Boscombe chine gardens with 4 of them plus subs and it was fine. Never underestimate how little a PA throws outdoors though. It was good and solid in the performance area, but 100 yards away it was like someone had left a radio on.

 

Wedding party with small blues band - did that with one box per side plus wedges and they were very pleased.

 

Twice a year I do the staff show at a local Gala bingo. 600 audience and my four mid-tops and 2 subs get a good beasting then, but it's hardly rock n roll.

 

Any of the bigger shows you might cope with if you had enough of them, but it's not really the ticket for real bands at concert levels - you'd be failing your clients if you tried. Things like arraying, dispersion, lobing, headroom all come horribly into play - things that you maybe wouldn't be too concerned about in a small room.

 

You have to decide what kind of PA provider you really are going to be. Little Behringer boxes fit into an estate car and can sound just as sweet as big name PA in a smaller room (if you know what you're doing and have good amps). However, if you're serious about bigger shows attracting 300-3000 crowds you have to be prepared to invest in good boxes. Not necessarily new, but they'll be heavy and expensive. I'm a weekend warrior at the moment and I'm happy - gear's all paid for and the income keeps us in fine wine.

 

You're welcome to try them - I'm in Bristol once a week. Mail me off-list if you like.

 

Cordially,

 

Pete.

[James]

Thanks for that Pete, Nice to know someone who has some.

 

At the moment I'm thinking of some other alternatives (although I haven't ruled out the Behringer boxes at all)

 

Just to repeat, my current rig is 2 EV SX300's with 2 EV SB121's and 4 SX300 "clones" This combination is fairly useful at the moment. They are great for conferences, small musicals and theatre events, where I find they fly very well.

 

Unfortunatly I don't find that combination particularly effective for some band events I'm now being asked to do where they almost require more quantity than quality. Hence I have been seriously thinking of the Behringer boxes. At the moment I'm tossing up the following alternatives for increasing my FOH for bands and events.

 

1) Buy 4 Behringer 1520 and 4 Behringer 1800X giving 2 stacks per side.

(Relative Price Index=1.00)

 

2) Buy 2 more SX300's and 2 more SB121's giving me 2 stacks of this per side

(Relative Price Index=0.90)

 

3) Buy 4 Behringer 1800X and 2 more SX300's

(Relative Price Index=1.08)

 

4) Buy 2 EV Eliminator subs and 2 more SX300's

(Relative Price Index=1.17)

 

5) Buy 2 EV Eliminator subs and 2 Eliminator tops.

(Relative Price Index=1.23)

 

 

I'm not only looking at EV - it's just somewhere I've started. I'm also not seriously thinking of #2 but it is the cheepest, it's just me listing my options.

 

With options 2, 3 & possibly 4 I would still use my existing SX300's FOH Alternitavly I would press them into service as extra monitors and offer 2 extra stage mixes.

 

I like #1 as it gives me more boxes for dispersed coverage when I do outdoor gigs.

 

I like #5 as it I am almost stepping up a gear and only ending up with one box per side, meaning future expansion will be easier. But it is 25% more expensive than option 1 and not much more efficient.

 

I like #3 and 4 as it gives me extra SX300's for those pesky theatre rigs where I want to fly things all over the place.

 

Conversly I'm also concerned with #3 and 4 as I don't know if 12" drivers are ideal for rock & hiphop

 

Thinking about this the largest high spl event I will be intending to do will be about 300 people indoors. (The largest low spl event I have booked is 2000 people outdoors but that is just silly)

 

Any advice from anyone would be greatly appreciated. (I'm thinking of spending this money in the next few days and I'm not happy that I'm happy about what I'm going for yet.

 

 

Thanks all

 

 

James

[themadhippy]

james how are you crossing over between the 121's and the 300's

?if your doing it passivly go active,the diffrence this made to a mates system (ok it was 200's and 121's) was stunning,wont cost that much if you can follow a circuit diagram,if I rember corectly the x over frequency is around 120 hz,with a subsonic filter around 10 hz

[James]

hippy.

 

I'm already crossing over activly at the moment. 120Hz is what I found works best. After that both the 300's and the 121's get 450W into 8Ohm so there should be enough power there as well.

 

Thanks though

 

 

 

James

[IanG]

James - It might also be worth asking your question on alt.audio.pro.live-sound

 

The folks on there are usually quite helpful and sometimes the UK based ones have decent discounts on their ex-hire stock.

[Brian]

It might also be worth asking your question on alt.audio.pro.live-sound

Although they can sometimes be a bit sniffy about kit from Behringer/Mackie/Peavey etc

[James]

It might also be worth asking your question on alt.audio.pro.live-sound

Although they can sometimes be a bit sniffy about kit from Behringer/Mackie/Peavey etc

They still seem to hate Mackie with a vengence, however I was supprised to read this thread recently. Perhaps attitudes to behringer might be softening somewhat (And the emergence of Behringer reps activly standing up and defending their products is interesting to say the least as well...) I'm don't know about Peavy though - their 2x18 sub did so well recently at the LAB sub shootout I was under the impression they had an acceptable budget reputation.

 

Thanks though!

[IanG]

They still seem to hate Mackie with a vengence

 

There seems to have been a bit of an Allen and Heath rebellion recently too - although if the number of reports of dead channels etc. are accurate then I can kinda understand that.

 

Perhaps attitudes to behringer might be softening somewhat

 

Most of the sound professionals I have met have been happy with at least some of their products. I'm seeing an awful lot of Composers and Behringer DI's at big name shows nowadays. (acts that could afford to spend more if they wanted to)

 

That said, there still doesn't seem to be much tollerance for Behringer consoles.

 

I'm don't know about Peavy though [..]  I was under the impression they had an acceptable budget reputation.

 

I think they've been shifting upmarket since their purchase of Crest some time ago.

[James]

Perhaps attitudes to behringer might be softening somewhat

 

[... ...]

 

That said, there still doesn't seem to be much tollerance for Behringer consoles.

 

Personaly I haven't seen the attraction of any of the Behringer desks with the exception of the DDX3216 which seems to be a completly different animal.

 

 

James