Amateurs....

[Bryson]

Hello everyone. Had a really really dispiriting experience today and I just needed to share it, partially to get some sympathy, and partially to try and give some pointers to any amateur people out there about how not to do it.

 

 

We had our local amateur group's representative in today to tell us about the show at the end of the week. He started badly on the phone when he called to say he was coming:

 

My colleague, Tim, answered the phone, our friend (lets call him...Sonny) begins thus:

 

Sonny: "Is Bryson there?"

Tim: "No, sorry, can I be of help?"

Sonny: " I wanna talk to Bryson, he's the technician we deal wiv."

Tim: "He's not here at present, but I can help you."

Sonny: "Wot? Are you a technician as well?"

 

Now: Bad start: Note number one:

The venue technicians are not technicians. You may call yourselves what you wish, but I am a technician. ABTT does not stand for Association of Theatre technicians. My ID card says: Technician, not technician. Grant me just a tiny little bit of repect.

 

Finally, Tim arranged for him to come in a bit later that afternoon to discuss his requirements. Some time passed, and eventually Sonny arrived.

 

(Now: A bit of background: we have a Multi-purpose space, so we have to build raked seating every time we use it - supremely dull)

 

Sonny noticed that the rake had been built.

 

Sonny: "Oh, good, you've built the rake for us."

Bryson: "No, sorry, this was actually for the event yesterday. We've got to take it down later today. We'll rebuild it on Thursday."

Sonny: "Well, anyway, it's in the wrong place." (The rake is only ever in the same place every time we build it - it's the only way to fit in our capacity)

Bryson: "Pardon? In what way?"

Sonny: "We need room for someone to climb up the back of it and enter the audience that way."

 

Now, the raked seating is about 3m high - so to get over the handrail would take you to 3.5m. It is in no way designed for climbing on at the back, even if we could move it, which we can't. Sonny insisted that this unusual entrance was an essential part of the show, despite it being absolutely impossible. The issue remains unresolved.

 

Note Number Two:

 

Don't tell the venue technicians how to run their own space.

 

Note Number Three:

 

Don't include things in your show until you know if they are physically possible.

 

We moved on to lighting, in the hope that it would bring some relief. I was, of course, incorrect. The lighting plan was apparently done by "this really good bloke who knows exactly what he's doing." The plan specified the following lanterns:

 

Parkhands

Fresh Nells (Seriously!)

Strands (Of any kind? 5k Fresnels? 12k HMI Pars? Minims?)

 

The plan itself, was actually a plan done on Powerpoint showing large overlapping ovals in the approximate colours required in the correct places on stage. Aproximately 1/2 of the stage apparently does not need to be lit whatsoever. Now, to be fair, this is possibly a good way of expressing what you want if you have no idea what you are doing, but if you claim to be a "really good lighting designer," I'd hope for a plan that showed some lanterns from you.

 

Note Number Four:

 

If you don't know the terminology, please don't make guesses.

 

Note Number Five:

 

Please, please, if you're not sure - just ask! Don't pretend to be something you're not. I will notice.

 

The final part of the plan showed a rectangle Upstage Centre marked "blinder." It turned out to be a molephay that they are getting on hire from a local hire company. (I found this out by calling the hire company) It needs two 16a dimmed supplies. I have 10a dimmers. But it's already on hire, so can't possibly be cut/changed. Not really sure what we're going to do with it...

 

Note Number Six:

 

Don't hire anything until you've asked the venue if you can use it.

 

We discuss staging. They've been before and I think they may have finally grasped the concept of fireproofing after I sent them off to White Light last time before the scenery was allowed in the bulding. They still seem a little vague on my wholly unreasonable rule about not painting the set while it's on my wooden floor. Anyway, he announces that he needs a white cyc "for the projection."

 

Bryson: "What projection are you using?"

Sonny: "Video and stuff, like. From a laptop."

Bryson: " Whose laptop and projector is it?" (Preparing for the "pat testing" conversation.)

Sonny: "Yours."

 

Finally, he hands me the cue sheet for the show. I notice a few of the cues say "+ smoke." I query this:

 

Sonny: "Yeah, we'll need the smoke machine to go at that bit."

Bryson: "Which smoke machine?"

Sonny: "Yours."

 

Note Number Seven

 

When you hire the space, we send you a sheet saying what equipment you get the use of. This list is unlikely to contain things like projectors, laptops or even smoke machines. Read the list.

 

Anyway, as it turns out, our projector is not very well at the minute, so it isn't available. The laptop he was hoping to use also happens to be the laptop I use in the office. Our smoke machine pisses fluid everywhere whenever we use it, and is banned from the stage on the grounds that it's f***ing lethal. So he was sorely dissapointed there...

 

In the end, Sonny took his leave with a grunt and vague muttering about "seeing you on Thursday" (there was a definate note of menace there.)

 

 

The names above have been changed to protect the innocent. Not that I can actually think of any innocent parties that I've spoken about. Hey, whatever.

 

Anyway....this rant has gone on long enough. My overriding point is that if you are rude to people, as Sonny invariably is, you will get in trouble. Not once did Sonny say please or thank you, not once did he ask if, or how, he could do something, he would merely present it as what he intended to do, regardless of our thoughts on it. I do not have a overwhelming hatred of amateurs, (we have another group who are really sweet, who we bend over backwards for) I just can't bring myself to step one micrometre out of my way for people who are just rude to me.

 

The moral of the story is this:

 

Sonny asked me if I could store his set for a couple of days so they could go directly to the aftershow party after the last show. I have plenty of room for it, and there's no practical reason why not.

 

I said "No."

[Thirdtap]

'Lo

I think you have just taken the last three years of my life with dealing with amateur companies and condensed it into one conversation.

[ace]

He He He..

 

Bad day then.. I think we all know of some amateur who thinks that he knows everything and wants everything to be done his way. I have worked in the industry from both sides - as a technition for the Theatres and I also help alot of amateur companies as it is good expericence for me and I enjoy being appreciated, and they find me useful as I know what I am doing.

 

Had I been in your position I think I would probably have slapped him. It is such a shame when you compair it to other am-dram groups who are doing it because they want to, not to make money, and can be so much fun and so polite.

 

Hope you have a better day tommorow! :D

[themadhippy]

some so called proffesonals arn't much better,had a self contained show in on saturday ,they were adament that they could run there lx rig (24* 500w par cans,pin spots,smoke machine)off 2 13A sockets and they'd always done that, to make things even more "intresting" there dimmers had 16A BS 4343 plugs on,yellow ones (110v)and a couple of 110v extention leads with a 13a plug on the end,suprisingly everything had a current pat test label on it

[James]

some so called proffesonals arn't much better,had a self contained show in on saturday ,they were adament that they could run there lx rig (24* 500w par cans,pin spots,smoke machine)off 2 13A sockets and they'd always done that,

 

Hmm.

 

I don't necessarily see a problem with this as long as the group are incredibly careful about how many cans they use at the same time. I have often run fully loaded 6x10A racks off of 13A sockets. I just have to make sure that I spread the load so that no scene requires to many resources from a single rack.

 

to make things even more "intresting" there dimmers had 16A BS 4343 plugs on,yellow ones (110v)and a couple of 110v extention leads with a 13a plug on the end,suprisingly everything had a current pat test label on it

 

Now that is sick. Reminds me of when I saw someone had re-wired a Minuette Profile with yellow arctic PVC.

 

James

[Dave]

We had our local amateur group's representative in today to tell us about the show at the end of the week.  

Most amateurs assume it will all be OK on the day. You should be grateful that they made contact in advance of the get-in!

 

some so called proffesonals arn't much better,had a self contained show in on saturday ,they were adament that they could run there lx rig (24* 500w par cans,pin spots,smoke machine)off  2  13A sockets and they'd always done that, to make things even more "intresting" there dimmers had 16A BS 4343 plugs on,yellow ones (110v)and a couple of 110v extention leads with a 13a plug on the end,suprisingly everything had a current pat test label on it

Given than 110V plugs are wrong (period), I would have been minded to refuse to let them use the gear.

 

But like James, I also have no problem with the load on a dimmer being more than its supply can provide. It's not much different to having more dimmer capacity than the overall supply. I once worked in a venue that had eight 6 x 10A dimmers running off a 200A supply.

 

But in the circumstance I would be a bit suspicious that the protection was being bypassed - I wonder if the 13A plugs had nails for fuses??!!

[NickLee]

On a tangent on amateur companies, anyone see "The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly" the other day - set at Questors?

 

An amateur company, I fear, that gives a bad name to the term amateur.

 

Incidentally, as an Amateur I can assure you that not EVERYONE is as described though I'm in no doubt people as you describe exist far too frequently.

I think people who don't use other people's venues regularly tend to have all these assumptions about what they do and don't get and what they can and cannot do. I suppose it's just lack of experience rather than a genuine distain for those who operate the venues but yes - I can imagine, very irritating.

 

--Nick (an amateur who can take criticism :D )

[Thirdtap]

Yoooooooooo

 

Yes I think that it has been pointed out that this kind of attitude (rude and assuming) is not limited to amateur compainies. I must say that I have worked on a lot of amatuer productions and some of them are equal to or better quality than pro shows. Even some of the not so good productions were redeamed by the company enjoying themselves onstage and being very polite and friendly to venue staff.

It does seem quite often that the chairperson of the amateur company, who doesn't always deal with tech stuff lacks um... inter personal skills.

 

How many other professions have an amateur industry? Besides the payroll department over Christmas?

:D

[Bryson]

We've often discussed the possibility of setting up an amateur insurance company...

 

We could get together twice a year and...umm...underwrite things. :D

[Stu]

I know this is the sterotype of amateur companies, and most that I've come across seem to live up to our expectations of them. However there are always the odd exception out there, who are a nice bunch, and that you'd do pretty much anything for. Tech wise I mean ;)

 

However, same applies to Professional companies, you get the gooduns and baduns!

 

Ah Well :D

 

Stu

[Ben]

im my experiance it makes little difference if the company is amateur or pro as if they are rude we dont like then and if not we do.

 

I have to say though that I have had worse experiances with Pros than amateurs as I find that the pros come in and say "we know it works in other venues so it can and will work here" however the amateures often come in and say "I want this" true they dont think of the way to do it and if they do its often wrong but they do in general give more scope for your input as most of them admit to not knowing what they are doing.

 

the problem with both amateurs and pros comes from not wanting to ask questions and admit that they simply dont know somthing.

im sure thats not the case of anyone on here or what would be the point of coming to the forum??

 

just my 2p worth

:D

[tonythetechie]

Think I must be lucky with the amateur societies in my area.

 

I also have a society coming in at the weekend, they arranged a meeting in October with us to ensure we were up to speed with what they wanted and what they were doing.

 

and only today had a call from another society coming in may asking about the possibilities of having a catwalk around the orchestra pit. stating it would be a fantastic effect if it were possible and did I think we would be able to do it.

 

have also dealt with the professional companies that are outright rude and don't deserve any help at all, these people normally get the minimum necessary co-operation.

[themadhippy]

I don't necessarily see a problem with this as long as the group are incredibly careful about how many cans they use at the same time. I have often run fully loaded 6x10A racks off of 13A sockets

yes diversity/common sense can be applied but the 110v leads was enough to make me warey,just as well realy as the final bows apeared to be lit with all the pars at full,

forgot to mention there super 1kw follow spot,fan cooled and as much light as a patt 23 without a lens.

[Bryson]

Update!

 

Today is the day of the show. Our lovely friends arrived late (whatever - means I get to spend less time with them) and with a couple of surprises....

 

Remember the smoke machine? They've sourced their own. God knows where they got it from, but they've only got a Jem Heavy Fogger...for a venue that seats 165. Hmmm.... Fire Alarms on standby...

 

And, best of all, they produced a box from their van, saying "oh, we forgot to tell you about...the pyros." <_<

 

Now our licencing officer likes a months notice of pyro usage. The show is tonight. The possibilities of the pyros making into the show are...slim.... ;)

[Thirdtap]

The thing that I always find relives my stress - flame proofing testing.

If the company are annoying you , set light to (small) parts of their set and props.

This usually weeds out unsuitable items, which to prove your point you can retest in front of them.

 

Be prepared for the following:

 

Oh that's not meant to happen!

 

That's not the way you tested the set last time!

 

We weren't told about this!

 

And my favourite - Those were granny's curtains!

 

Flame testing the best with condeming electrical equipment coming a close second.

PAT test party story:

Get in day set being constructed. People using some power tools onstage. Give them a quick visual check. Found a drill being used.

Metal drill case ok, orange lead with a small roll of PVC tape wound around the centre.

Remove tape to find a choc block. Snip there goes the plug.

Talk to owner - hear the 'well it hasn't killed me yet ' speach, with 'I use it at home sentance' included. Start explaining PAT testing to drill man and get stopped quarter of the way through when he explains that he is a retired electrical engineer!!!

 

<_<