Police vet live music, DJs for 'terror risk'

[Andrew C]

The Register report

 

A dozen London boroughs have implemented a "risk assessment" policy for live music that permits the police to ban any live music if they fail to receive personal details from the performers 14 days in advance. The demand explicitly singles out performances and musical styles favoured by the black community: garage and R&B, and MCs and DJs.

 

However all musical performances - from one man playing a guitar on up - are subject to the demands once implemented by the council. And the threat is serious: failure to comply "may jeopardise future events by the promoter or the venue".

 

If you are as incensed as I am, perhaps writing to your MP would be in order.

"If you tolerate this, your children will be next!"

[saturnx21]

I would like to express my views on this but as this is a public forum I shall have to refrain and continue to scream and shout obscenities from the comfort of my armchair! with my poor dog wondering why I'm making such a row!!!

 

:(

[Guest lightnix]

If you are as incensed as I am, perhaps writing to your MP would be in order.

You really think that'll do any good?

[JDP]

I have just been in some pretty scary moments in concerts. I welcome it. When I was doing more in the US I have come foul some pretty scary riots (2 of which were inflamed by a band who have just recently released a new album)...

 

But you know for a fact if 1000 people start rioting or shooting each other the police will only catch 3 people, most probably the girlfriends or liggers of the trouble causers, so will do no good. As we all know, some 'artists' or band members have been forced to use physical force to stop over-crazed fans from doing bad things - does this mean they will be banned as well??

 

I also think with all due respect to people here and this forum, its a bad idea to post things like this. £10 says 90% who comment on this have no direct involvement with the music industry in terms of working on them at a touring/management level, so can't offer an opinion based on their experience of these kinds of situations, and the last 9% that people who comment on this don't even work in the industry :(

[Modge]

If you are as incensed as I am, perhaps writing to your MP would be in order.

You really think that'll do any good?

Me neither, however what else do you propose to do instead? I don't see a partition on the downing street website achieving much ether. Those of you who live in London could try writing to the police about it but I'd suggest you were doing well if you so much as got a form letter back. The best I can come up with is those of you who live in London and there for voted Boris in a)write to him b)write to his opposition in an effort to make it an election issue. The next mayoral Election being some time away though there's every chance those of us in other cities will have the same problem by then, but still it seems to have the best chance of doing something. That and write to some newspapers, since they after all get to dictate policy to just about everyone. Local councils also have the final say in this (I read the original article, and thought of posting it here, only to be beaten to it) so perhaps partitioning them could be of benefit?

 

OK I fear have had a bad case of being young there, actually thinking anything will make a difference, but it makes you feel better having tried and failed.

[themadhippy]

We can't demand it - we recommend that you provide it as best practice. But you're bloody silly if you don't, because you're putting your venue at risk

so erm how is telling pc pinky and dci perky that mc distorted tothemax is playing in your venue going to protect your venue? are they going to come in and set up some compresors and limiters on the pa and provide all the punters with ear defenders?

Im quessing it will often fall to the tecnical managers to fill in these forms,and I for one often make mistakes when filling in forms

 

even when such advice exceeds the police's authority, as it does here.

Nothing new there then.

[Doug Siddons]

If you are as incensed as I am, perhaps writing to your MP would be in order.

You really think that'll do any good?

 

It would appear from the article that our Music Chief Feargal Sharkey is already on the case so a letter of support to him would help, and further down the article it says

 

Detective Superintendent Dave Eyles from the Met's clubs and vice office told us that 10,000 such Risk Assessments would be processed this year. He said they weren't compulsory:"We can't demand it - we recommend that you provide it as best practice. But you're bloody silly if you don't, because you're putting your venue at risk."

 

 

 

And this was an interesting comment:

 

said Eyles. "I've never known an event to be cancelled because a Risk Assessment wasn't completed. If we went to the organisers and asked them to pull it, we would be laughed out of court. I cannot believe that would happen. In itself, it's not grounds to shut an event down."

 

Does that save a bit of paperwork? :(

[MrPete]

The thing that's struck me is the way that these forms are being called "Risk Assessments".

 

Now, don't get me wrong, I 100% understand that any form of assessment of any kind of risk is a risk assessment, but by calling them that from the outset people are going to get confused as to what is a health and safety issue and what is a security/"terror"* issue. It'll be confusing for all concerned.

 

When involved with events in St John Ambulance, every few events we cover the organiser says "What's a risk assessment?", so with more and more seperate issues being called the same thing it is getting harder to explain what is in essence a very simple thing - common sense written down. Grrr

 

 

*I say "terror", as I believe that a lot of the actual terror that is created is simply through propaganda and scaring people into believing things are worse than they are. The meaning of this word has been watered down and cheapened to the point that it's hard to differentiate between a TRUE terror and simply something that's just a little bad, as such :(

 

E2A - I just had a quick look at the form linked on the Register's site and it is actually called a Promotion/Event Assessment form. ALREADY the confusion may start, gah!

[Andrew C]

I have three fundamental gripes. 1) The whole premiss of the police (who I would support naturally in most things) having such control of "Art", and 2) the abuse of a "Terror Law" to deal with DJs and artists. 3) Which moron drafted the law so poorly as to allow such an abuse in a civilised country.

 

One wonders how long it will be before some football matches are banned under the "Terrorism Acts".

[nothingatall666]

One wonders how long it will be before some football matches are banned under the "Terrorism Acts".

 

although in my opinion, a ban of football would be a good thing :(

 

however,

 

reading that made me want to scream!

how on earth do they have a right to vet/ban/disallow music?

that is soo wrong! surely art (including music) is a freedom of expression? one of the basic human rights. (well unless the artist didn't own the song rights) there has got to be a few loop holes

 

"We're not vetting the performers - we're looking at the audience. It's not the music it's the people who follow it, who use that event as a catalyst to commit crimes."

 

surely the performer is a follower of the music they make (and people follow) hence making them a 'person that follow it' (fans)

"I would doubt that's factually correct," said Eyles.

 

hah, I've heard that one before.

 

they have big balls to stand up against the 'followers' of 'garage and R&B, and MCs and DJs.'

 

 

"Live music is now a threat to the prevention of terrorism", he concluded.

is it me or does that line sound like he's watched we will rock you to many times ? :)

 

 

I doubt I've finished ranting. but I'll go and be angry elsewhere!

 

A concurrent post has been automatically merged from this point on.

 

just been reading the whole of the 'risk assessment'

 

Do you have other knowledge of the acts or crowds attending that would need special considerations to be made to limit crime and disorder (e.g. problems at previous venues, the make up of the patrons, whether they are local or are expected to travel from long distances to the event, etc.)?

Yes ☐ No ☐

now who in they're right mind would tick yes? (knowing that this was going to the police to vet the event)

[Kopy]

Hi all,

 

In my entire professional career, which must include thousands of shows, I have unfortunately been present at two riots and three shootings. All of these occurred at R&B/garage events with MCs and DJs.

[niclights]

I have to say I find myself siding with JDP and Kopy here. I've been involved in some nasty shows & they were also garage/R&B. I welcome police interest, comment or even prevention in an extreme case. Like many things I don't think this will be as drastic as it may sound and will probably impact a very small number of shows.

[Dmills]

I have only worked one gig where there was an incident (stabbing in this case), a drum and bass night (Don't ask what I was working one of those for).

 

Having some reasonable way to inform the police that you have an event that you consider to have a significant chance of trouble occurring during or after the event is probably a good thing, and ties in with the public order element of the new licenses. As the officer says, there is no legal requirement, but by and large the venue management are going to know which gigs may be a problem (We normally did at that venue, and often had a quiet word with a contact at the police if we thought something might kick off).

 

Now I see the potential arguments against doing it routinely (and in fact, who would bother), but when you get a show that you suspect may be a problem, putting in the form as well as beefing up your security that night could be a reasonable thing to do.

 

The major concern would be if some politician (or worse, the daily mirror!) got hold of the idea and tried to do something like writing it into the licensing act!

 

Regards, Dan (Who was once told by the police to open a venue that had had its license pulled earlier in the day because 2,000 punks turned up expecting a gig - Explaining that one to the licensing panel was interesting).

[Andrew C]

To those supporting this because "things kick off" or there are other crimes of violence, sure, I support action to enable the police plan a response in advance, but this is being pushed through under terrorism laws.

 

How long will it be before you have to have an ID card because the Met think it's a good idea, and a weakly thught out terrorism act is used to enable the "requirement"?

[JDP]

At the end of the day, whatever its classed as its still illegal and should be dealt with harshly. Terrorism does seem a little odd, BUT if your not a trouble maker, and you have nothing to hide, Andrew I feel you are overreacting a bit?