Hydraulics the how, where from, the how much

[torch1972]

:** laughs out loud **:

 

I have a director who wants to to use Hydraulics to lift two actors to a height of 5ft in the first half of a show. In the second half of the show he wants to use the same Hydraulic for a hot balloon floating and rocking effect. The director ask can the Hydraulics go up at angle. I know very little about Hydraulics. Can this be done?

 

Can a hydraulic go up at different angles?

 

If a Hydraulics goes up to 5ft how small will be when it is down?

 

How do I power it?

 

Where can I hire a Hydraulics from?

 

What are the safety issues?

 

How many could it cost?

 

What else do I need to think about?

[Ynot]

I have a director who wants to to use Hydraulics to lift two actors to a height of 5ft in the first half of a show.

I don't know enough to answer all your questions, and the answers I'll give here are perhaps going to raise MORE questions than you already have!

Well, yes and no. Whatever you do, the hydraulic kit has to BE somewhere, and if you can't create big holes in your stage, then it will have to be hidden by some sort of set piece(s). There are two main ways (I think) of using a hydraulic ram - the first as a direct push/pull piston setup which will extend the piston in a single direction (which could indeed be an angle). the other is more like what you see on lorries and cranes etc, where one or both ends of the ram is on a 'hinge' thus deflecting the business end of what's being lifted in different ways.[/color]

 

If a Hydraulics goes up to 5ft how small will be when it is down?

 

That will depend entirely on the type of hydraulic ram being used.

 

How do I power it?

 

Likely from a noisy pump/generator arrangement...

 

Where can I hire a Hydraulics from?

 

A hydraulics hire shop?? :** laughs out loud **: Sorry - no idea on that one.

 

What are the safety issues?

 

Numerous, I'm sure, but some would certainly involve the remote lifting of potentially heavy items as well as ensuring that if people were in (say) the baloon basket that there was no way the hydraulics could 'eject' them at any point...

 

How many could it cost?

 

I doubt it will be cheap.

 

What else do I need to think about?

 

Risk Assessing the whole idea for a start...

[Jivemaster]

Just check that you have lots of time and money allocated to this project.

 

If you are in the UK Howard Eaton might be a first port of call. The £numbers will be frightening.

 

Then there is risk and hazard assessment for all the possible normal and unexpected modes of use. Everything must fail safe.

[ImagineerTom]

Can it be done - yes

 

Is it cost effective - no

 

Hydraulics are very rarely the most practical method for lifting/levitating in theatre - there's a wealth of other methods and technologies in use but ALL of them are expensive. Things that lift people have to be extensively tested, have numerous safeguards built in, require lots of specialist design skills and have lots of insurance; all this costs money.

 

I've just worked on a VERY basic levitation system (to make one person move approx 4ft up and down) - there was no change from £10k

[GridGirl]

Would you not be better with a wire flying system? Cheaper and quieter, and probably a lot easier in terms of installs etc. Get in touch with Foy, Freedom or Hi-Fli who would be able to advise you on it.

[Ynot]

This just strikes me as a director having a 'thought' about how something might work whilst having absolutely NO idea of how the mechanics could be implemented or how expensive it is!

[Piers Shepperd]

The director ask can the Hydraulics go up at angle. I know very little about Hydraulics. Can this be done?

Yes - but you need to do more work first. You are using the word hydraulics which in our industry describes the use of pressurised oil to move something. You can use hydraulics in cylinders or winches either on their own or as part of a larger mechanical device like a scissor lift.

However I think you need to scope out the theatrical requirement first and then go a professional staging company to get advice. There may be many different ways of achieving what you want and not all of them will be hydraulically powered.

 

For the moment though here is some more thoughts about hydraulics in the theatrical context.

 

1) It would be very helpful to print out for the director various images of hydraulic systems. i.e. Google for scissor lifts, hydraulic rams, hiab crane arms etc and make sure you both have the same understanding of what you are imagining.

This is the start of your education.

Is it ok to see a scissor lift or will it be hidden by scenery / lighting etc?

Do you need to have just a single hydraulic ram with very little other structure visible?

Ynot mentions a mechanical arm moved by a hydraulic ram to either telescope or rotate a structural member. Can this be made to work in the setting?

How fast does the move need to happen in?

The actors will need to be safe. Can a platform have handrail around it? Or do they need to be harnessed?

How much can the balloon weigh? Is this a gentle rock or rocking like in a tornado? etc etc.

 

2) Budget - Hydraulic systems can be very expensive. This is driven by the following:

a) The fact that they are relatively rare (in our industry)

b) Require specialist infrastructure (power packs, hoses etc) and specialist crew (to operate and maintain).

c) High risk in both design, installation and operation - see point 3.

d) Hydraulic systems exert high forces very effectively and therefore require expensive mechanical components to house them in. Think profiled steel plate rather then wood.

 

3) Risks - There are many and will need to be assessed by your team and can not be ignored. Read through this list and then realise that to mitigate these will inevitably cost money. Firstly I'm guessing there won't be a competant person on your team who can assess these risks and so you need to budget for them. The following is not definitive and certainly not complete;

a) Risk of escape of high pressure oil

b) Risk of crushing, and pinch points to personnel

c) Sudden loss of hydraulic pressure due to valve failure, hose failure, cylinder failure

d) Structural failure of any components

e) Operator error

f) Control system failure

g) Power failure

h) Electrocution

I) Trapping of power cables, hydraulic hoses (e.g. cable and hose management issues) during operation.

j) Slips and trips (particularly slips from oil

k) Environmental hazards caused by leaks of oil

 

 

Can a hydraulic go up at different angles?

Yes - you can operate a cylinder at any angle.

 

If a Hydraulics goes up to 5ft how small will be when it is down?

How long is a piece of string? Some clever scissor lift designs use two hydraulic rams (one to start the lift from collapsed, and one to do the majority of the travel) can collapse down to 200mm.

 

 

How do I power it?

Electricity to a power pack. Capacity of rams, load and cue speed will define sizing of power packs and requirement for power supply.

 

Where can I hire a Hydraulics from?

I would contact Stage One Creative Services, Brilliant Stages, Delstar etc etc. Links to their websites here;

Stagelink Scenic Suppliers

 

What are the safety issues?

See point 3 above for a start.

 

How many could it cost?

Take the length of a random piece of string and then convert to pounds and double it. I would define the brief first and then talk to a reputable staging company. Your estimate of 5' travel is very small, and so you will easily find somebody who can do this easily with kit they already own. The costs come from the crew and infrastructure costs they will insist on.

 

What else do I need to think about?

Trampoline? :)

 

I hope some of this helps.

 

Cheers,

 

Piers

[indyld]

If you really need to involve hydraulics to make something move, which I doubt is really necessary, be prepared to get the pro's in (Delstar, Eatons etc) and pay a ton of cash. I really wouldn't go with a solution that involves someone with a few rams and a compressor.

 

And be prepared for hydraulic fluid all over the venue. These guys get through endless industrial bog rolls.

 

There must be a better solution.

[torch1972]

:)

 

Thank you for all your replies they have confirmed what I thought the facts would be. I can present these issues to the director and then find more imaginative and practical solutions ideas for the productions

 

Thanks

[Jivemaster]

Very simply you CAN do wondrous things with hydraulics, look at the JCB slicing millimeters off the ground for Time Team!

 

Can you afford to do it on stage, -unlikely

Is it necessary, -doubtfull! The "levitation" is what's seen not the method.

 

Draw the effect as intended to be SEEN then see if hydraulics is necessary, or safe or affordable.

[Steve Cavill]

Give LiteStructures a call about this.

 

They have hydraulic risers in their hire stock.

[daifuse]

A production of 'Little Shop of Horrors' some years ago used a gas powered fork lift truck to elevate Audrey - it was hidden behind the set with extensions to the lifting arms - simple but very effective.