Restrictions

[Matty93]

We are allowed to do all of he above except the scaff/ladders!

[SoLiEn]

From a legal perspective you are not allowed to go up ladders or tallescopes as a student, as you are not insured. anything you rig therefore must be checked by someone deemed competent, usually the appointed technician or head of theatre studies or even the health and safety manager, although we tended to lead our health and safety bloke at school away from the theatre with a trail of doughnuts and tea......

 

A concurrent post has been automatically merged from this point on.

 

I don't have time to worry about safety and regulations. I have a show to run.

Sounds like you're a danger to yourself and to others, an accident waiting to happen. Safety should be your priority, from your postings so far I wouldn't trust you to sit the right way on a toilet.

 

...and I know my limits.

So you'll be completely aware of the gaps in your knowledge, experience and attitude then...

 

 

 

 

Agreed.

[paulears]

From a legal perspective you are not allowed to go up ladders or tallescopes as a student, as you are not insured.

 

Another misquote of the facts. It is perfectly possible for schools to insure under 16s for whatever they wish to do - otherwise, contact sports, gym equipment and dangerous chemicals would make education impossible.

 

The simple fact is that what kids at school can or cannot do is the responsibility of the Head and Governors, who take advice from people who know what they are on about. When activities are banned, this is frequently when the advice offered is poor, or just wrong!

 

If your school errs on the side of caution, then I doubt that protests from students will change things very much.

[SoLiEn]

my apoligies, I was merely quoting what I was told by the health and safety manager! I stand corrected

[paulears]

Not a personal thing - BUT - this is exactly why Heath & Safety is a joke in some circles. Nowadays people seem to accept opinion as fact far too easily. If a solicitor told me a legal fact, or a doctor a medical fact I'd bow to their superior knowledge and professional standing - but in many businesses, the 'health & safety expert has possibly been on a course run by another person who has been on a different course, and they propagate somebody's opinion as legal fact. remember when the Health & Safety Exec had to state on their website that they had NOT banned ladders. Just misinformation that spread around as fact.

 

I go to schools and colleges all over England and Wales, and see places with draconian safety rules (often totally and utterly mis-applied), and others who have a much more sensible and practical systems in place. One has a full circus style flying and static trapeze hanging from the roof - others have tallescopes. As a rough guess, I'd say that about half allow their students to do practical rigging, under supervision. Those that don't, rarely have a good reason. Usually 'it's 'the rule'. Nobody knows why, it just is. When pushed, it will fall back on the old chestnut, the Heath & Safety Officer.

[willpower]

I go to schools and colleges all over England and Wales, and see places with draconian safety rules (often totally and utterly mis-applied), and others who have a much more sensible and practical systems in place. One has a full circus style flying and static trapeze hanging from the roof - others have tallescopes. As a rough guess, I'd say that about half allow their students to do practical rigging, under supervision. Those that don't, rarely have a good reason. Usually 'it's 'the rule'. Nobody knows why, it just is. When pushed, it will fall back on the old chestnut, the Heath & Safety Officer.

 

Paul, please can you come and speak to my school about this!! It doesn't affect me much any more, as I will be working there next year as the Gap-year theatre technician/Drama Production Support Assistant, but I actually tried to take this up with the deputy headmaster as to why it is not possible for students to climb the tallescope or rig anything other than at floor level/2 steps short of the top of a step-ladder. He replied it was illegal. As much as I can sympathise with schools wanting to cover themselves or prevent accidents (and I would not be one to allow students to do anything up ladders/tallescopes/scaffolding unsupervised), I think it is all part of the education they should be gaining from such establishments! There is no point in learning how to do anything technical if a huge practical part of the rigging is missed out.

[KindredHyperion]

I can sympathise with many here about the ladders thing. I too am (and do somewhat resent being) forbidden from working at height of any kind, and given all the same reasons.

 

However, we recently had the air ambulance in after the IT manager fell off the scaff tower and came very close to losing a foot. Goes to show it does happen.

[adam2]

My school days are long over, but I remember wiring a plug on a light at the age of about 10!

Even at that tender age I knew how to do it correctly, and more to the point I felt that useing a plug was a better idea than pokeing the wires into the socket which was what the teacher did!

(and they did not even poke the wires into the right holes)

 

I also remember the caretaker inserting pieces of brass rod instead of plug fuses, because the fuses kept blowing. The plug and flex got very hot, which worried a ten year old, though not the adults.

Perhaps suprisingly the place never burnt down, just looked on google earth and it is still standing.

[jony.reynolds]

At the school I have just left, the rules say that no students are allowed in the hall unsupervised, even if they aren't using technical equipment.

 

But, this was rarely the case. the only person that enforced this rule was the head caretaker. Many times I found myself in the hall with another student in the early hours of the morning setting up for a show. Looking back this was really so unsafe, if anything were to have happened it could have been a real disaster. The auditorium had already burnt down once due to hay and lights <- (I know... idiots) but most of the time we were being perfectly reasonable. There would be 3 or 4 of us in the hall going up the talescope rigging and on the odd occasions lowering truss and swapping macs that were messing around.

 

The only time I had a problem was when I had to draw a plan of the auditorium for a show with a laptop that had been lent to me that had auto cad on it and which had to be returned the next day but the caretaker wouldn't let me work.

 

Anyway, all in all, the rules where there but not followed and rarely enforced

[Jonathan Mellor]

I did all of the above, without staff supervision, strictly speaking the independent school I went to wouldn't allow me, but I was the only member of the school who knew what they were doing with lighting & sound equipment, so the school eventually gave up on telling me to get down from scafolding towers. I was given the keys to all the technical cupboards, and got paid to come in when the school hall was externally hired out to do the lighting & sound. I took over the lighting & sound after one of the physics teachers stepped down from doing it. I always think its funny how schools always get the physics teachers to do the lighting & sound, and in my experience they always make a mess of it.

 

I've just left school and am going to study for a degree in Live Music & Theatre Production, my school has asked me to return to do the technical for events this year and to train the IT technician in basic operation of sound and lighting .

 

my school is one of those snobby private schools who have very formal prize giving ceremonies at the start of each school year. and I'm being awarded the 'Service to the School' prize now I've left which I feel I deserve after being pulled out of many lessons when asked to wire up mirror balls and PA in the yard for remembrance day services and being an important part of every play, musical, rock concert at school.

[bruce]

after being pulled out of many lessons when asked to wire up mirror balls and PA in the yard for remembrance day services

 

You had mirror balls at the remembrance day services? cool... :)

[mac.calder]

I did all of the above, without staff supervision, strictly speaking the independent school I went to wouldn't allow me, but I was the only member of the school who knew what they were doing with lighting & sound equipment, so the school eventually gave up on telling me to get down from scafolding towers.

 

Hmmm.... Well if I ever worked in an institution like that (not that I ever plan to) and you kept ignoring instructions like that, you would find yourself sitting in detention for the rest of your career, bared from the theatre and under serious risk of being dismissed.

 

Generally, rules are there for a reason - and they should be respected. If you feel a rule is unjust, there are ways to get around it. I could train a monkey to rig and de-rig lights, so I am sure your physics teacher could be trained to do all that stuff up the scaff tower - after all, time up the scaff is only a small percentage of the job of a technician. Prep everything properly on the ground, and then call focus (ie point out all the knobs, then call out and tell the teacher exactly what you want them to do). If the teacher is in any way interested in the show looking great, they will be patient.

[superuser2]

I want to know why exactly students would not be allowed to use or turn on electronics. Is the sound guy really going to be able to break equipment by turning knobs and moving faders? The light board is essentially a computer... barring taking a hammer to it, how the heck do you damage it?

 

Climbing around/rigging is another story and makes perfect sense. But operating electronics? Come on. What's the point of a student crew if you can't do that?

 

Is switching on a dimmer cabinet dangerous?

 

Doesn't barring student access to amps mean no student sound techs? Only thing I've ever broken was a mic cable when I had the level cranked up and some idiot performer knocked it over (only partially my fault, act needed wireless mics anyway...). And that cable costs a lot less than a professional's time.

[Andrew C]

Is the sound guy really going to be able to break equipment by turning knobs and moving faders? The light board is essentially a computer... barring taking a hammer to it, how the heck do you damage it?

No; but some idiot student "sound engineer" has trashed several drivers that I am going to have to replace. As to lights, "Lets turn everything on at once!" BANG! " Oh sh1t, why have they all gone out?"

Only thing I've ever broken was a mic cable when I had the level cranked up and some idiot performer knocked it over

Sorry? How do you break cable doing this? Trash a driver? Yes... Hmmm, I don't know you do I?

[smalljoshua]

As to lights, "Lets turn everything on at once!" BANG! " Oh sh1t, why have they all gone out?"

It's not only the students doing this though. At my school if it weren't for the fact we had Tempus dimmers with their slow rise times there would be no lamps left. All the teachers do is turn the demux on/off when they need the lights on/off leaving the Dimmers and desk on at all times.

 

It gets annoying when even though us students are sometimes the culprets for damage from lack on knowledge, it IMO is equally likely to happen with teachers.

 

Josh