Restrictions

[heinz57]

I can,

 

Switch on the fuses (dimmers), run the lighting and sound desk un-supervised, rig sets/scenery (mainly rostra at my college!), program a show, use mics

 

It may not seem like much but its a deal more than what other students can do. I'm trusted alot at my place and I'm the only student that looks after techi stuff, which I do ASWELL as my major and being in the performances (Major being Performing Arts with tech theatre being tought as a module for one term last year)

 

Before the technician left at christmas (we have only just got a replacement, who isn't realy majord in theatre) I could go up the ladders and scaffold (scaffold only being used once a year for our major de-rig/rig) rig and fucus lights.

 

I have also helped move the retractable racked seating.

 

Now the techi has left for some reason I can't go up the ladders, even though I have better training/experience with them than the lecturers/current technicians

 

Me!!!!!!!!!

[nicemms]

I'm allowed to do most things, although I'm allowed to go up ladders on my own, I don't generally like to, not that confident at heights! But I'm allowed to switch the dimmers and lights on myself, operate the retractable seating, program a show by myself, move set by myself. All sorts really.

[Guest]

I'm allowed to do everything on that list, and part of my responsibility as a "senior" member of our team is to be viligant for other, less-experienced members of our crew when they may be carrying out the above tasks.

 

The younger, less experienced members are allowed to carry out most of the above tasks given that they have checked with myself, or another more experienced member of our team - and in the case of climbing a tallescope, there is a rule of thumb that there should always be one, if not two people at, or near, the bottom of the scope while someone is up it.

I also hold keys to every door in our theatre and drama studio.

[nothingatall666]

Offically you are not allowed to re-wire a plug at school, teacher or student if I'm thinking right ?

 

From memory, you're not legally allowed to unless you're qualified to do so. At least that's the reason I was given for not being allowed!

 

you're allowed to re-wire a plug, teacher or student. but using it wouldn't be legal. as the plugs need to be PAT tested, as part of the schools insurance. :D

 

at a private school I can do everything on that list, at the atchal school I go to, im not allowed to do hardly anything, apart from operation and rigging/derigging/moving the sound equipment. though, to be honest I do occasionally stand on a table to refocus the LX or change the gel.

[steve h]

at a private school I can do everything on that list, at the atchal school I go to, im not allowed to do hardly anything, apart from operation and rigging/derigging/moving the sound equipment.

 

im sure thats just to do with the fact its 2 different schools having 2 different policies rather than the fact one is private and the other state!

 

though, to be honest I do occasionally stand on a table to refocus the LX or change the gel.

 

not something you should really admit to...h&s nightmare and not best practice!

 

Steve

 

A concurrent post has been automatically merged from this point on.

 

To wade into this properly with guns blazing as it were I thought I would tell a story - are you sitting comfortably?

 

At my old school a small team of techs ran things with no guidance from any staff. We were careful and always did things properly, we had a pair of zarges for the FOH bars and a catwalk above the stage for the bars on stage. When you were in sixthform you could go up the ladders (and often at the end of yr11 once you had "left")

 

At the end of my time in the school a health and safety inspector joined the board of governors and read the insurance details concerning the hall and productions after seeing some things that he thought were dodgy at a previous event (although I couldnt see anything, as I said we were very good with things). Now bear in mind there is only one company that will insure schools and that is zurich, so every school will have the same policy!

 

So...what happened next I hear you ask! Well...according to the policy theres no more ladders. Instead we should be using a scaff tower with trip boards round the edge...are you ready....air bags at the bottom incase we fall! We also had to replace every safety chain and bond with I think it was zinc coated chain, held with a D clamp - which is a bugger to do 1 handed at the top of a ladder! When he saw the MAC250s we had and asked for 2 chains to be put on them...just in case! We had to put safety mets infront of the stage incase a performer fell off, hazard tape along the edge and white gaff 30cm in so they knew they were coming to the edge! We also had to rope the side of the stage so performers didnt fall on the amps down there! (There the ones I remember off the top of my head!) He also came a did a full inspection before the next event and passed us, but missed many obv faillings by the sound equipment set up by the staff (3 speakers on top of each other with nothing holding them together next to the crowd at a gig!)

 

Anyways, just pointing out that sometimes what a school is doing is actually right, and also sometimes the H&S guy gets it wrong. But just make sure that what you do is safe!

 

I know that the guys there now cant do many of the things we did, but im afraid I cant tick boxes as to yes or no what is covered in the policy

 

Steve

 

The school also appointed a theatre tech, but as he was a multi purpose rill he didnt really know what he was doing, but luckily I got out before any more events took place!

 

edit: just to point out, zurich being the only insurere was told to me by the bursar of the school - and that this was now 2 years ago!

[Andrew C]

Offically you are not allowed to re-wire a plug at school, teacher or student if I'm thinking right ?

Utter tosh. The ONLY legal requirement is to be "competent". Mind you, most of the "facts" in this thread are also wrong.

[Bobbsy]

Andrew is 100% correct when he says that the only LEGAL requirement for fitting a plug is that you be competent to do the job. Unfortunately, defining "competent" can be a legal minefield and I wouldn't want to be the headmaster in court trying to argue that the 14 year old who put a plug on wrong and burned down the theatre was competent because he'd had training!

 

Although not strictly necessary in law, quite often the expedient way of proving competence is to do a recognised training course and have a certificate. My son works in the industry and between himself and his employers he's been on a number of courses: erection and use of scaffolding, use of scissor lifts, use of cherry pickers, PAT testing and several others I can't think of. Is he any safer of more legal now than before the courses? Maybe a little. Are he and his employer safer from an insurance and public liability point of view? Absolutely.

 

What contributors to this thread must remember is that simple legality is only one aspect of the restrictions you may find imposed on you. Besides the law of the land there will also be local rules imposed by the Education department of your local authority, other rules imposed by your school itself and, finally, restrictions imposed by your school's insurance company. None of these latter three sets of rules can be described as "law" but they affect what you are allowed to do every bit as much as the law of the land. Add to all this the things that under-18s probably should not be doing but that teachers turn a blind eye to (even though they are legally responsible if something goes pear-shaped) and you can see why there are such variations in the answers to the poll.

 

If anyone is interested in the ACTUAL legal situation for under 18s there are numerous other topics here in the Blue Room with the rules explained by people who know the law far better than me (I'm a semi retired sound guy, not a lawyer!). However, what must always be remembered is that, whatever autonomy you may think you enjoy at a school, it is the staff there who carry the legal responsibility of something goes wrong and somebody is hurt. You may have the title of "Head of Lighting" or whatever but, when the parcan falls on an audience member, it's the school and its staff who can be sued, not you.

 

Bob

[mbthegreat]

I was allowed to do everything on the list apart from go up a ladder without a teacher present from when I joined our tech team (Year 10). Now I'm in Year 12 and I'm allowed up ladders as long as someone else is around to foot / assist in an emergency. However this may be because the teacher in charge of tech knows that I work in a theatre and I know what I'm doing, he tends to make sure that he himself is around usually when there are ladders involved (as in, he is usually in the room when people are using ladders)

[richard_cooper]

Just thought I'd add what I allow students to do in my (private school owned) venues.

 

... go up a scaffolding towers/ladders.

 

Not usually. I'll usually allow this on a short step ladder in the studio, where the rig is about 9', but not in the main hall which involves a range of Zarges and an ESCA. Occasionally with responsible older students, when properly supervised this will also be allowed. Fortunately the main theatre has most of the lighting positions on very well guarded bridges, designed for the purpose.

 

... use the sound and/or lighting desk.

 

Absolutely, encouraged to do so.

 

... wire a plug.

 

When instructed, supervised, and checked by a competent person, yes, unfortunately time often rules this out

 

... turn on the dimmers and/or moving heads.

 

If it's a permanent installation such as dimmers, then yes. Temporary feeds to other equipment such as movers, extra dimmers, etc. no as each will be different and there may (or may not!) be other considerations.

 

... turn on amps and use speakers.

 

Yes (but then I do have power sequencers and conservatively set limiters on everything that may need it)

 

... use (wireless) microphones.

 

Yes, but they have to be collected from me.

 

... program a show.

 

Definitely.

[cfmonk]

I answered for how it was four years ago when I was in school. Basically ran the backstage of our theatre which had touring companies in as well as school productions. Obviously there was a tech who supervised everything vaguly scary but we had power tools and everything else!

[Dave]

Just a couple of points:

 

The key thing is insurance as has been previously mentioned. Whilst there may be no H&S or legal problems if someone is deemed competent/trained/experienced/supervised (and that's a massive grey area in itself), if the schools liability insurer is not prepared to cover the risk, then the school is exposed to claims in the event of an accident. No organisation will be able to accept that. So, in the end, it's often the insurer that decides who can do what.

 

I am sure that there are many more accidents (and very serious ones at that) on school sports fields than in their theatres. And let's not bring up field trips and outdoor pursuits. So if you can make a case (through caseful risk assessments and method statements) that technical theatre is safer than rugby (for example), then you should be able to get some sensible policies in place. However, I also suspect that schools place much more emphasis on one of these areas than the other, and I'm sure you can guess what it is. So unless you have sympathetic staff, you may find they can't be bothered to do the paperwork or discuss things with the insurer.

 

Secondly, regarding H&S stuff, it's important to remember that very few things are prescribed in law. Mostly it comes down to subjective judgements as to the risk involved. So you can get over-zealous H&S types as previously mentioned that feel the need to impose an approach that goes well beyond accepted industry practice. Unfortunately the fear of being prosecuted or sued tends to make people a bit paranoid today, such are the times in which we live...

[DaveBennett]

I can do most the things on that list.

 

I've got the keys to the cuboard which stores all the sound and lighting equipment and also have access (walk into recpetion and get the key) to the second cuboard which has the dimmers, chairs and staging.

 

There fine for me to use mics, use and setup sound equipment, program shows etc. Never had the need to wire a plug since I've been there, but if it was needed, I probably could, as long as I got the caretaker (who deals with all the sound/lighting) to check it.

 

However, we are not allowed to use the Genie to get to the lights for refocusing etc. Also, the caretaker doesnt like students setting up the staging although he is happy for me to do it when supervised by him. There was a bit of a disagrement between a drama teacher (who used to be heavily in this industry) and caretaker when two students and him set up the staging themself, he wasnt happy because of if the students or teacher had done there back in etc, as they shouldnt be doing it.

 

Would be nice to be able to use the Genie, as the caretaker who can use it, hes good at it, but I'd much prefer to have a crack at it myself.

 

Dave

[Ben Couch]

I'd love to be able to use our genie, but I have to wait until im 18 in November to do it, but other than that,can pretty much do anything we want to at college, climb ladders, wire plugs, rig, fly stuff etc etc

[jakefraser]

I think to a certain extent the restrictions depend on the level of knowledge and trust in the institution.

For example, where I am, I've been working the lights for six years, and back in November master-minded a project which involved provisioning a new power feed from the distro, hiring/assembling/using trussing and cycs, a video projection system, install of a temporary dance floor and more bits I don't care to remember!

Because the staff know that a) I'm responsible b) not going to take risks and c) knowledgeable, they just let me get on with things. Much in the same way, I'm often the one setting up the scaffold, having learnt through practical experience as the site staff were not much help first time we set up; the power calculations are done by me courtesy of Physics A Level; reporting of faults/incidents is done by me and they know I'll take an interest in helping solve things; proposals for funding are put together by me; CPD sessions for LX/sound are run by me.

Obviously if there are technicians employed by the institution then the legal responsibilities can fall to them to let everyone breathe easier, which may result in students not being allowed to do certain things, but training is essential, but only useful if you've got someone who knows what they're doing teaching you!

I expect to hear that I'm in an unusual situation, but I think a lot can be said for proving your skill (or in some unfortunate cases, lack of it) to the powers-that-be and satisfying their concerns and legal responsibilities, as well as using a nice big dollop of common sense which I can't help but feel is an ever-increasing rarity these days...

[berry120]

I think to a certain extent the restrictions depend on the level of knowledge and trust in the institution.

 

I'd say more than a certain extent. Beyond the legal stuff about what you can and can't do, I'd say your level of responsibility come down to pretty much this alone. If members of staff have got 100% confidence that you're not going to break equipment, you'll do things safely and you genuinally know what you're doing, then in my experience they'll let you get on with things. If they're not so sure of your competence for whatever reason (because the person in question isn't as competent or just because some people are more trusting than others) then they'll probably be a heck of a lot more reluctant to let you loose on equipment.