Looking for a BIG desk

[gherriott]

names and copyrights mentioned are subject to change.

I'd bet these gents would agree.

 

...yes I have heard of them, hence why the name is subject to change according to the patent office's advice. Please bear in mind I am still in the starting processes of this with no experience of producing a show before, so am therefore learning the legality issues as and when they crop up.

[mikienorth]

Would fred bentham's light console not be the thing you really need for this, there is a member on here that did something with one to make it speak DMX as part of his studies. His username gives him away.... Light Console, we mean you!

[gherriott]

Many people have suggested this, however although it would be a great experience for me as I am a pianist too, it is not quite what I am wanting. I want an orchestra to be producing the music whilst the operator(s) are seen running up and down a desk 'playing the lights' rather than an instrument being hooked upto a desk if you know what I mean.

[paulears]

If it's for visual effect - as in the people working it leaping around, the a dummy desk on stage and the real one somewhere else. If you want to play it for real, then a programmable desk linked to an 88 note ketboard via mid would be better to 'play'. Sounds like a great idea that may well produce awful lighting - but you never know?

[smalljoshua]

[crazy idea]

Why don't you build one of These

 

If you only use one finger at a time with the supplies software you can do it with winodws and some software.

 

Josh

[gherriott]

What I am wanting is the lighting to be mixed live using just the preset faders of a desk, no programmed cues apart from the desk that is in charge of the ambient lighting, so that the lighting is reflecting the music, rather than me playing a keyboard with each note representing a lantern, as that is basically just the light organ again. If you have seen 'Classical Spectacular' at the Albert Hall it is similar to that, except the lighting operators are incorporated into the performance too...live.

[themadhippy]

how about a strand sub pallette

[david.elsbury]

I second the recommenation for the Jands event

[Paul J Need]

What I am wanting is the lighting to be mixed live using just the preset faders of a desk, no programmed cues apart from the desk that is in charge of the ambient lighting, so that the lighting is reflecting the music, rather than me playing a keyboard with each note representing a lantern, as that is basically just the light organ again. If you have seen 'Classical Spectacular' at the Albert Hall it is similar to that, except the lighting operators are incorporated into the performance too...live.

 

My first reaction to reading this thread was:

-1- It's going to look very messy

-2- Why not use people to mime moving faders - in the same way an actor mimes turning on the light switch when entering a room for example ( The audience will not notice - honestly)

-3- Is this a superb ploy to save on a lighting designers fee?

-4- Will there be a lighting designer involved at all?

 

I understand the concept Gherriot and it's all possible however, call me an old cynic if you prefer but, what is the point of all this? No, really, what is the point? The craft of lighting a production, whether play, opera or music concert; involves a great deal of time, experience; knowlegde, artistic input and musically; all this is worked in to the lighting cue list to get the very best out of how light in intergrated in to the performance. Otherwise, what you will end up with is an 'organic' process and I therefore refer you back to the list of bullet points above.

 

Any lighting operator involved with a live production is already incorporated in the performance, whether they press a single button to playback a pre-programmed sequence of changes or using 120 faders on a manual desk - whether in view of the audience or not.

 

I wholehearted beleive, from what I have read so far, you will achieve a much better look by using a 'proper' lighting desk, spending time lighting it in the old-fashioned way and miming. Afterall, 60% of the audience will not notice the lighting anyhow ! :P)

 

Paul J Need

Lighting Designer

ps I have operated shows using 120 channel 3 preset lighting desks and frankly was very pleased I was hidden away in a lighting box out of view and earshot - the cursing... the sweating......................

[iamchristuffin]

What I am wanting is the lighting to be mixed live using just the preset faders of a desk, no programmed cues apart from the desk that is in charge of the ambient lighting, so that the lighting is reflecting the music, rather than me playing a keyboard with each note representing a lantern, as that is basically just the light organ again. If you have seen 'Classical Spectacular' at the Albert Hall it is similar to that, except the lighting operators are incorporated into the performance too...live.

 

 

Hopefully I'm not going to sound patronising...Clas Spec is fully programmed, I assume you knew this? Or were you just saying that's the sort of lightimng you wanted?

 

Chris

[richard]

I would disagree a little with Paul, while I agree Lighting takes a lot of work and planning, there are times where lighting can be improvised by a suitably experienced person - this is how a lot of live music lighting is done, as well as Lighting in clubs etc (which can sometimes be pretty amazing)

 

However, this is usually done via the mixing of pre-programmed looks/states and building up from that. To create anything coherant from 120 separate faders will be pretty impossible and messy - remember that lighting is as much about the transitions as it is the states itself. If you have a beautiful state in the end, but it is a mess on it's way then it will not really impress the audience much..

[peternewman]

If you want the whole running up and down thing, then surely lots of really simple desks and a DMX merge or some careful cabling to the dimmers is in order. I'm thinking 5 Z88 Level 24s or something which in a row will look pretty impressive. The only downside is you loose the solo and grandmaster functionality. Although if you did still want to use them its the kind of thing you may be able to re-implement with some electronics and soldering.

[GridGirl]

If you can get hold of one in England (which may be tricky!) TheatreLight make a CueMaster 120 which has 120 channel faders on it.

[dbuckley]

Sadly TheatreLight appear to have no European representation at all. Most folks have now heard of Selecon, a little Kiwi company that can take on anyone on the world stage, but TL is restricted to Australasia.

 

TL make some cracking products, the CueMaster (and the older ShowMaster) desks are basically just old school manual desks, and for the sorts of applications with a lot of generics and hands on buttons and faders is the requirement, these desks are, in this modern age, unbeatable.

[gherriott]

Thanks guys for your comments so far, few to address I see...

 

Firstly 'What is the pont' and 'It will look a mess'.

 

The point is I am trying to do a few things here, firstly I want to bring back the art of live mixing, creating a plot on the fly. Yes I do know exactly how much work, design and thought goes into every cue on a conventional and modern show, but I also know just how much work and thought would need to go into producing a state whilst under pressure and in time with the music and in the same style of the music. With regards to it looking a mess, yes it would look a mess if it was just left upto that main desk, hence why I mentioned another desk looking after the 'ambient' lighting of the show or maybe a better way of phrasing it is the base states for each as well as intelligents. This would take a lot of pressure off the operators on stage to keep the orchestra and themselves lit, and allow them to purely concentrate on bring the music to light. I am basically taking that whole concert mixing where you change the colours and intesities of the light to match the mood and rhythm of the music to a higher level. I am also bringing the operators of that into the performance. Yes I do know that even in the box they are still a vital part of the performance, but how often are they really noticed? I would say 9 times out of 10 only when something goes wrong, by average joe public, the lighting operator and designer is probably never thought about unless it goes badly, like most things in life, which is why I want them to become the performance for change.

 

With regard to Christuffin's comment about 'Classical Spectacular', yes, I do know that it is all programmed, but that is the type of production I am after in terms of an audience going to see a concert where light is a known part of the performance.

 

I know that this is a very hard concept to visualise really unless seen, so when someone can tell me how to insert a picture on here, I would be glad to put some preliminary wysiwyg renders of it on here. The renders will show my initial idea of having many desks merged together, which I think was mentioned above. That was a leading idea however, trying to actually get hold of a DMX merger for more than say 4 universes is one thing, the price another and the logistics of how it would actually work is another, would I want all desks to be able to have control over the same channels? If so would I have it set to a HTP system, LTP or HTP with a master desk? Would I split those channels therefore elminating the need for a merger? That is the reason where I am now leaning towards one big desk not only for that but also for how it will look on stage too.

 

Anyway this is turning into an essay now, but thanks for your comments and I hope this clears some things up, if there are any companies out there who would be willing to lend a desk in return for advertising publicity in and around the cambridge area and Uni....please get int contact!!

 

Greg