Technical Riders

[gyro_gearloose]

I've added this as a post rather than a PM as it appears that at the moment I can't send a message (the website does not respond when I click the 'Send Message' option on Pauls post above).

 

If you wanted to know what Jethro needs, why not ask one of the other venues he's visiting this year? You could have approached the venues directly, or put a post here on the blue room. You could even have asked me since we've got him again this year. He'll bring in a stack of BOSE 802s and an amp rack. Sound is, as you've said, controlled from stage. He may or may not tie on to your in-house PA. He never does with us as he dislikes our EVs.

[niclights]

And that is a good example of a better way of dealing with the problem through forums IMO. If you're struggling to contact then this can be another way to try and get info -ie. anyone out on tour with/anyone from venues etc. and ask for help with specific details.

[mackerr]

In addition to the possible bad reaction from artists to their rider being published, does the Blue Room want to accept responsibility for distributing what we all agree is likely bad information? I think a couple of fake examples of what a good rider is and what a bad rider is with explanations of why would be helpful for those trying to put together a tech spec, but posting out of date tour info is a step backward.

 

Mac

[paulears]

Wow! Ok, Ok, I give in. The odd thing is all the recent posts just make me think it's a good idea even more - using the Jethro example, I could have contacted the venues where he's been before - anybody got an email contact list for the proper people, not via admin or stage door? Those ways sometimes work, but are always slow, so not a good idea, me thinks!

 

 

For what it's worth the last three riders have no tag indicating the contents are private, confidential or not for dissemination.

 

Since nobody thinks it's a good idea, I'll give up. Dummy riders good or bad are NOT what I meant at all - As somebody working in a venue, getting riders is really difficult - I'd hoped others in the same boat would have like the idea of sharing.

[niclights]

anybody got an email contact list for the proper people

 

By PM would be wise I think?

[TeeJay]

I'm kinda with paulears on this one - there are some shows that realy should supply their tech info in a timely manner.

 

Maybe what we need is The Rider Co.

 

When production managers and the like send out riders, an extra copy goes to The Rider Co. who upload the data onto a secure server.

 

People then are able to log-in and view the up to date riders for any given show or check the archive of The Rider Co. for older versions.

Riders could be emailed on request or even faxed or sent snail mail (for a price, obviously)

 

Hey, it could work ...

[The Gaffa]

Loved the Iggy Pop rider.

 

Ok my 2p worth.

 

Riders,

1. Never believe a word in them, they change every 99.9% of the time.

 

2. If you manage to get one more than a week / month in advance, call the promoters or tour manager.

 

3. If the group / band are playing not to far away try and go visit the venue and talk with the above, or try talking to the venue (I know thats been said by Gyro gearloose a bit further up the thread).

 

End.

 

 

Here's part of an example that I received for a show:

 

Lighting... Colour wash, Red 106, Blue 353, Brown 156, Green 138,

 

Sound..... 2 SM 58, 2 RM300 headset, IEM,

 

Transport from Dressing rooms to stage 1 four seat electric buggy

 

Catering, "Star's room" Magnum of Moet Chandon '76 chilled in ice, Punet of fresh organic strawberry's.

 

 

Called the CM turns out that none of the above was required and what ever we had in the house LX rig would do, the sound was on a CD & MD, the buggy wasn't needed, the champagne & strawberry's were a joke.

The original rider was out of date by some 24 months.

 

 

It pays to check.

[Modge]

Lighting... Colour wash, Red 106, Blue 353, Brown 156, Green 138,

 

OT in the lighting direction: who spec'd a brown wash for their band? I mean, Chocolate is nice, usefull colour. For threate. I've never prevously considered using it for a band, did they just want a front light wash of it? I'm not critising it, it's just that I've never thought of doing it and I was wondering what they were trying to achieve.

[Guest]

Umm......™

Apologies if this seems a stupid question but, what exactly is a rider?

[paulears]

It's an 'add on' to the contract that specifies things that have to be supplied or made available. Often they have silly things in them - which aren't really needed, but technical riders state useful stuff like power supplies, locations, parking that kind of stuff. You are supposed to sign them and return - but few do - and very often the riders are old, or even just wish lists for some - but 100% essentials for others.

[Guest]

Ahhh.... ™

I understand, thanks for clearing that up.

[lightsource]

often the riders are old, or even just wish lists for some - but 100% essentials for others.

 

And here lies the problem :unsure:

 

A lot of the riders we see can easily be split into 2 different sections, One is the tech requirements, such as mics, channels power, lighting etc, the other is the (venue) parking, food, washing, phone dressing room / office facilities etc.

 

As far as the technical side goes, we've never supplied close to 80% of rider requirements, yet have always had totally satisfied customers.

 

And some of the venues we've been in have probably provided zero rider requirements.

 

At best, riders are a grey area, as Paul sort of hinted. The only real way to deal with them is to talk to the people involved, so there's no nasty suprises on the day of the event.

[niclights]

OT in the lighting direction: who spec'd a brown wash for their band? I mean, Chocolate is nice, usefull colour. For threate. I've never prevously considered using it for a band, did they just want a front light wash of it? I'm not critising it, it's just that I've never thought of doing it and I was wondering what they were trying to achieve.

The OT response... I've done so many times with mixed results. Try it. Never heard it called brown though!

 

The On Topic... Many riders are essentially just to ensure a professional level of service. The specifics often don't matter as long as a venue has similar quality facilities.

[paulears]

As some people know, my venue is on he end of a pier - so we are always on the look out for

"dock door access for 2 trailers" - no a 100, push down a deck

"The artiste must have private and secure access to the stage door" - once you get past the throns of people wandering abot

"Overnight parking for a winnebago with power" - well, maybe if we have time to get a permi, but would you want to sleep outside lots of pubs who stay open till six in the morning?

[cfmonk]

Perhaps OT but I have to say I hate the culture of "rider" which has grown up over the years.

 

[RANT]

 

Technical riders are important, channel lists, colours wanted, types of microphone (although most people are happy as long as the quality is the same) etc are all vital and I can see why a massive act like The Who etc would want to specify dressing rooms, food and drink it seems that is has percolated down the food chain and got out of hand.

 

I was the event manager for a start up night (went down the pan in the end but it was a nice idea) which combined stand up comedy and live music. The bands they had were of The Young Knives, Long Blondes etc type (a year and a bit ago now so even smaller then) and they were paid around £500 max for the performance.

 

They would then send a rider which had about £150 of booze and food on it and got really shirty with me when it wasn't all provided (we gave them some beer and some water). It really really annoys me that they (be it tour managers or artists themselves) effectively think they can add on 30% to the fee they get paid!

 

More recently when running club nights I have had DJs turn up (not the "superstars" they are normally fine but one level below that) who are being paid a fair old whack to perform and bring with them four friends or so. Of course we give them free entry but the friends then start demanding drinks and complaining that there is not a "rider" fridge on the stage! Can you seriously imagine me turning up to work at Tesco with four friends and demanding they are provided with refreshment? In the end I got angry and told them to stop being scabs, result was a pissed off "entourage" but the artists know who pays the wages :unsure:

 

[/RANT]

 

Chris