niclights Posted April 12, 2008 Share Posted April 12, 2008 So, finally I find time to write this long awaited (!) review. Though this product is undoubtedly aimed at the club install/dj market it is (as far as I know) the first* LED source fixture to project a profile beam. For this reason I felt it worth investigating. http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/7818/reviewcomp1024hc8.th.jpg Contents: Head.IEC mains cable.Truss mounting bracket.Manual. First impressions: Unit seems well built, small & is reasonably lightweight.Both the head and base are fan cooled, which was slightly surprising.The manual is a multi-page (rather than single sheet photocopy) affair, but remains comically useless like previous Showtec products!Typical four button menu with blue LED display.DMX in/out on 3-pin. Power on IEC. Performance: After a short calibration we get straight down to business and there it is - a reasonably hard-edged profile gobo. There is some halo effect but no more than many traditional sourced heads. There is a manually adjustable focus. Colours are quite acceptable. Movement is fast. DMX control gives full or reduced channel options. There are various built-in programs along with the sound-light automation. The latter also has a master/slave linking function and has configurable pan/tilt limits. Other menu features include P/T reverse and display invert. So far, so good. But then we come to the brightness. Or lack thereof! I tried in a number of situations, including running in a typical environment with some 250W halogen effects, as well as solo in a completely dark room. Against the 250W units there was no hope. Even in the dark room with substantial amounts of smoke it was hard to see any realistic application. The unit projects a very narrow beam angle, which doesn't help in terms of illuminating areas. In conclusion: The units do produce a hard-edged beam. And this was certainly impressive to see. But the source is just not powerful enough yet. This, along with a very narrow beam angle, is the bottom line.I can see no current application for these fixtures other than looking 'cute' in a bar. IMO they are not suitable for use on a dancefloor even in the smallest, darkest club. However, it is interesting to see this development coming from the club end of the market where clearly there is huge demand for LED install options. Hopefully with time this can mature and we will eventually get the LED replacement for metal-halide sourced profiles in the pro market we so desire! * I found this product also exists as 'Chauvet', as is traditional in the world of 'budget' fixtures. Thanks to Showtec and Entertainment Technical Services for loan of the demo unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamtastic3 Posted April 13, 2008 Share Posted April 13, 2008 Nice review there.The size comparison with that moving head is unbelievable!Do you know how bright the LED is (Watts)? American DJ have brought out the 'X-Move' which has 1 x 20W LED, which they say 'has the same output as a 250W halogen fixture'?Also, was the unit dimmable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 13, 2008 Share Posted April 13, 2008 They are 15W total power consumption, 1W LEDs (5 green, 5 red, 5 blue). I cant recall whether they are dimmable or not. My first thought would be yes they were, it was so long ago that I used them though. HTHAlex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted April 13, 2008 Share Posted April 13, 2008 ...which has 1 x 20W LED, which they say 'has the same output as a 250W halogen fixture'?I just love the small print...• High powered DMX moving head with 1 x 20W LED (Output similar to a 250W Halogen lamp*)...(* Based on side-by-side visual comparison) How on earth can they claim that? Their LED is going to have to be producing in excess of 200 lm/W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niclights Posted April 13, 2008 Author Share Posted April 13, 2008 Nice review there.The size comparison with that moving head is unbelievable! Tnx. Scale was a last minute realisation! I'm sure there's a great deal I might have left out. Pls ask anything obvious and I'll see if I can answer. Also, was the unit dimmable? I must admit that, given my intended application (stand-alone) and the lack of power I did restrict my testing to stand-alone. Similarly I gave up trying to take photo's of the output because it was near impossible!But according to personality file the units have separate variable dimmer as part of shutter channel (where top 50% is strobe, a bit like old clay paky), along with obviously being dimmable via the colour components themselves. Do you know how bright the LED is (Watts)? No. But I deliberately kept clear of this sort of info. We all know how misleading it can be and comparisons (by manufacturer) are nearly always exaggerated. So I preferred to just see what the real world results were like. I did the direct comparison with 250W & if I were to put a figure on it I might guess 100W halogen. No more. Indeed they were so underpowered that a photo to demonstrate was useless. A case in point I think?! They are 15W total power consumption, 1W LEDs (5 green, 5 red, 5 blue). I've seen that statement before and I think is just plain wrong. Another reason for avoiding such info - these type of fixtures are renowned for errors in published data! Having opened up the units I find it impossible to see how this is true. I believe there can only be one combined RGB component. it was so long ago that I used them though Really?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 13, 2008 Share Posted April 13, 2008 They are 15W total power consumption, 1W LEDs (5 green, 5 red, 5 blue). I've seen that statement before and I think is just plain wrong. Another reason for avoiding such info - these type of fixtures are renowned for errors in published data! Having opened up the units I find it impossible to see how this is true. I believe there can only be one combined RGB component. it was so long ago that I used them though Really?! Thats what I was informed by various people who sell them and own them, so feel free to contest it and let me know if you find out you're correct! And yes, PLASA 2007 was quite a while ago. A collegue of mine ordered 4 at PLASA, I had a play with them when they arrived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted April 13, 2008 Share Posted April 13, 2008 1W LEDs (5 green, 5 red, 5 blue).Certainly that's what all the published info says. The manual is available here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niclights Posted April 13, 2008 Author Share Posted April 13, 2008 Ok. I knew it was shown at Plasa. Just didn't think of seven months as a long time ago! I really can't see how 15x1W LED could be being used but, regardless, I think what comes out the end is always more important than technical details or theory. It also states that dimmer/strobe is mechanical. I wish I'd hooked up to DMX and tested but this suggests it is achieved via the gobo wheel, which would be a strange thing to do. Also I'm sure I saw programs strobe while using a gobo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam2 Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 [How on earth can they claim that? Their LED is going to have to be producing in excess of 200 lm/W. AFAIK no LED produces much more than 100 lm/W, however this may not be a fair comparision when coloured light is required.Placing a colour filter in front of a white source wastes most of the light, this loss is eliminated by the use of coloured LEDs.The overall efficiency of a halogen lamp and a deep blue or green filter is in the range one to three lumens per watt!Blue or green LEDS range from 20 to 50 lumens per watt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 I own six of these units. I can confirm the dimming is done electronically, the DMX channel which controls dimming also has a strobe section... typical for a fixture in that price range. I've opened them up and I'm not sure how many LEDs there are under that tiny glass frosted lens. I have tested this number though, the entire unit draws around 40 - 50w. It's quoted as 50w in the manual and in the Showtec catalouge. Now, for my opinion... I actually think these units are pretty good, especially when you consider the cost is around £200 a head! I've used them in disco style situations along side Mac 250s and other HMI 250w fixtures. Obviously they are not as bright, but they do work. I've used them for uplighting sets and lecturns. I've also put some inside a frosted perspec lecturn, to good effect. I think they're best when used in groups, when I have all six (only £1200 of moving head) on a 2m scaff bar, you can get some pretty cool effects and looks out of them. Having said all that, they are by no means replacing my HMI moving heads, but I look forward to seeing the 'next' LED spot moving head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamtastic3 Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 I've just watched this video on the ADJ X-Move: This fixture seems to be a little better in terms of light output compared to the Showtec unit.For such a small unit it does have a fairly strong output throw in LED terms. It's just a shame that it has a tight beam angle to achieve this. These units looks very promising in certain situations in clusters. The gobos however don't :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prolightdesigner Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 True, this unit does seem a little brighter than the Showtec one. The video is nice but it doesn't show either unit next to a standard 250w halogen or 150w discharge fixture. It would also be really nice to find an LED mover that has gobos and RGB color mixing. -Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbo7744 Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 After watching Jamtastic's linked video, I think you will find both the X-move and X-scan both have gobo's Prolightdesigner. Still it is a shame there wasn't video of a shoot out between them and a 250w halo or 150w discharge. Jimbo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prolightdesigner Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Right, I noticed they both had gobos. I was referring to the RGB mixing of an LED wash combined with the gobos of an LED profile. -Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niclights Posted August 31, 2008 Author Share Posted August 31, 2008 It's very difficult to tell if they are any brighter, but it is clear they still have the same very narrow beam angle which is just as much of a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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