Multipin Connectors

[WhiskyFudge]

I realise this topic has been done to death with no definitive answer, I've spent the last 2 hours reading round and I'm more confused that what I started out as.

 

We're looking at starting to build up our own core stock, slowly but surely. We plan to add to it as we need. At the moment we hire/blag cores with our own 15m 12/4 (only ever used as a sub core).

 

We do a variety of events in a variety of venue's. Thus the more flexible/generic things are the easier life is for us! We like the idea of being able to do things such as have a stage box on each drum riser that can be wired up off stage and then wheeled into place and there is a single core to plug into the stage box. We're not a huge fan of long cores (for obvious reasons). We are also after something that could be easily repaired should something go wrong. For example if we find there is a break in a core it would be nice to just replace the section that is faulty and deal with the problem at a later date!

 

To start with we were thinking of having 3x 15m multicore extension cables (some sort of multipin connector on either end). With a stage box, and a tail. Both buying a ready made system and building up our own is on the table. It has to be said I like the idea of building our own, partly as I like new challenges, but mostly because we will then know the quickest way to fix it should it fail. Money is always an issue for us so cheap is good, that said we are willing to buy into a system that will last, and be flexible.

 

The ideal here would be for someone(s) to list all the different types of multipin connector out there and list the pro's and con's so I can make my own decision, but I'm guessing life isn't as simple as that - although if it is can I suggest the wiki is also updated?

 

Or are we making life too hard on our selves here and should just buy a ready made 45m 24/8 core on a drum?

[mi-ul]

We're looking at starting to build up our own core stock, slowly but surely. We plan to add to it as we need. At the moment we hire/blag cores with our own 15m 12/4 (only ever used as a sub core).

 

We do a variety of events in a variety of venue's. Thus the more flexible/generic things are the easier life is for us!

 

Or are we making life too hard on our selves here and should just buy a ready made 45m 24/8 core on a drum?

 

 

A few things - what's your budget - you can buy a 45 x 24/8 for £300 but I suspect you'd be looking at that for each section of multipin.

 

Do you work with one desk? If so then multipin connecter into that can save time (and confusion) but if you have (for exampe) the main 24/8 desk and also a secondary desk then you really need a second set of tails - and then in case you have both desks out a second stage box.

 

Edit: I should also add that XLR stage boxes are probably the most flexible / generic way to do it but may not be really what you want

 

I'll leave others to make suggestions of connnecting the drum multi in

 

Mi-ul

[spove]

Well you can do this is many different ways but the easiest and cheapest way would be to get a main multi which goes from front of house to stage side and then use shorter cores to go to areas on the stage.

 

The chepest way would to not use mulitpins but to use stage box to tails multicore something like this.

 

http://www.vdctrading.com/images/products/748.jpg

 

These would then simply plug into the stage box of the master multi. If you are going to use multipins on the cores this will make things a lot quicker to set up but will make the whole project a lot more expensive. If you are running a monitor desk as well as a front of house you will need to do a few other things to get it to work correctly but feel free to come back to me and I will be happy to help.

 

I have made many a multicore in my time so Ican help.

 

A

[Chappie]

One thing I will recommend is that you make your stageboxes with a multipin pass through. It can be very useful to be able to extend a run beyond the first box and be able to pick up the same lines elsewhere on stage.

 

As for which model of connector, well, there are many connectors out there that would do what you need. Is there anyone local to you that has similar stock that it would be useful to interface or standardise with? I can only comment on my own experiences and conclusions and I have by no means used all connectors. Firstly, steer clear of Edac. They are a very cost effective connector but they break easily in the field. We are forever replacing them for something more durable for customers who have bought multis off the shelf. VDCs VDM connectors (same as Direct Cable's XPC, Syntax's SVK, some of the Ten47 Tourline range and others) are very strong, waterproof, but expensive. They can also be a pig to build and repair. Just as strong and reliable are 12-pair Socapex connectors, but I have no experience of making them. In my opinion, the best combination of price, reliability and usability is the various sizes of Harting connector. Very easy to get hold of, very quick to make and repair and fairly cost effective. The physical size of the larger connectors can sometimes be a nuisance compared with round connectors, but isn't a real problem. There are also many different manufacturers of compatible parts, some better suited to our industry than others and can require a bit of research or experimentation.

 

I would also say that there is a certain amount of satisfaction in creating your own multicore system!

[Simon Lewis]

http://www.vdctrading.com/images/products/748.jpg

 

If you go for this type of design, it's worth paying the extra to have a multipin on the box. If you put one multipin on, you might as well put two on, and create a splitter.

 

Making your own is a bit like painting, learning to ride a bike, or making love.... After a few tries, you'll get the hang of it, but you might not be proud of your first attempts!

[Rob_Beech]

I'll second what chappie said about looking around to see what your local companies also use. To be able to use a 50m extender of theirs on a large gig without problems is another massive benefit. also, they can phone you for an extra set of tails if you have one in a desk not going out. Or you ca hire a larger desk off them or them from you and it already be patched.

 

 

Rob

[djtom29]

+3 with looking around! I have hired in desks and multicores from other companies and found them a pain to get to work with our system in school.

 

Alos think about how much you realy need now and how far you will be going in the feuture.

[Sirch Sound]

+3 with looking around! I have hired in desks and multicores from other companies and found them a pain to get to work with our system in school.

 

Why would you need to extend the length of your multicore in a permenant install situation?

 

I own a very nice system that I made up, basically its quite a compact multicore, to complient my larger one, which is a 48ch 45m drum. Basically the smaller multicore consists two 25m 16 channel lengths with multipins on the end, and I have a stagebox with 32 XLR's and 2 multipins on the back, and then also two multipin -> XLR tails. This system allows me to either run 32ch 25m or a 16ch 15m and I can also extend it with hired sections which I find is a very very handy system.

 

Rich

[djtom29]

Because that was when we had a gig outside and didn't have a multi core outside! Our 24/4 M one didn't have enough returns and so ended up hiring another one and extending our one.

[Jivemaster]

The miltipin connectors will make your leads unique or almost, and they will be very expensive.

 

Look at your possible hirers and consider following their logic. then you can hire in and out as needed.

[Sirch Sound]

Because that was when we had a gig outside and didn't have a multi core outside! Our 24/4 M one didn't have enough returns and so ended up hiring another one and extending our one.

 

Sorry mate im not understanding this, you hired another multicore, so had two and extended yours? If so fair enough, the way I read it was that you increaced the length to get more returns :) haha oh well, long weekend.

 

Rich

[Yorkie]

I've acquired a length of Sommer Mistral MCF24 cable and would like to make it into a multicore. I have been successfully soldering XLRs, Speakons etc on and off for the last few years, and have decided that I would like to make my multicore with multipin connectors. Apart from transport being easier (OK, I know it's not a massive consideration with 24 channels...) it means that I can make my system longer or shorter when I want to in the future.

 

I have experienced the VDM Circular ones, and they are generally very nice, albeit expensive, and I don't require their level of durability. I have experienced EDACs, and I concur with what appears to have been the general consensus here; they are rubbish. Socapex/Ceep connectors don't have enough conductors. I think I have narrowed it down to Harting Connectors.

 

If I use Harting connectors, is it possible for me (or any other future owner of this) to hire compatible extensions within the UK? Will using the 72DD connector enable this? Can anyone who's familiar with the Harting Connectors tell me what parts I will need? (I think it's an insert, pins, a hood and a protector for each cable end).

 

Finally, the big question: Solder or Crimp? I'm happy to spend ages soldering it if it means I save money on a tool.

[jim b]

I realise this topic has been done to death with no definitive answer, I've spent the last 2 hours reading round and I'm more confused that what I started out as.

 

It's a topic which looks relatively impenetrable at first look with so many options, different prices and possible designs. The easiest way to clear the issue up are to sort out some constraints (specify what you want).

 

I'd say you initially want to include in your list of constraints: total price, level of robustness, number of sub boxes, number of tails etc.

 

If I was designing a multi core system today I'd start by getting a pile of scrap paper. Sketch out a diagram of how you want the system to connect together. Remember to add in monitor splits if you want them-or even could do with them in the future (it's easy enough to put the output connectors on a stage box and build splits later).

 

Now most connectors have two types (male and female) for the moment don't worry about which type of connector is going to be on which cable just label them A and B (i.e. A mates to B). Depending on the variety of connector you decide to purchase there are different benefits to having male or female connectors in different roles (e.g. a female connector on some connectors I'd judge to be more robust so I'd make any connectors which would be dragged to front of house by local crew female). When you have a complete system designed in an abstract sense you can then use a spreadsheet to help see what the costs of your system would be.

 

If you're playing with a limited budget it really pays to look carefully at connector prices as some panel mount connectors are 50% cheaper than their opposite gender panel. Don't forget also to include hoods for connectors and the pins in your costing.

 

Saying all that I'd make some observations:

1) EDACs are the work of the devil avoid at all but the lowest of costs.

2) Harting connectors are robust and easy to make and repair-pricewise they are also appealing

3) Link Italy circular multipin connectors are easy to build and very robust but are more expensive

4) Patchable stageboxes are a godsend and keep things much neater.

5) Sub boxes with multi pins make support bands easy to deal with (especially with digi desks)

6) If you make a patchable box make sure you can leave it patched in its case for transit (if you've got a touring show there's nothing more boring than recreating the same patch every day instead of dropping out the sub boxes and running some cables)

7) Get someone to check the logic of your design BEFORE you buy anything

 

HTH

 

Jim

[Peter Tovey]

If I use Harting connectors, is it possible for me (or any other future owner of this) to hire compatible extensions within the UK? Will using the 72DD connector enable this? Can anyone who's familiar with the Harting Connectors tell me what parts I will need? (I think it's an insert, pins, a hood and a protector for each cable end).

 

Finally, the big question: Solder or Crimp? I'm happy to spend ages soldering it if it means I save money on a tool.

 

Yes - but make sure you make yours with the correct pin-out (see VDC catalogue or website for details). 72 pin version is most common (24 channels, frequently wired 20+4 on the break-outs). You also need a cable gland / strain relief, remembering that the hoods have PG and not metric threads.

 

Crimp is SO much faster for terminating, ad so much more reliable, that if you are making up more than a couple of 72 pin connectors it is probably worth investing in a tool (or finding one to borrow). Owning the crimp tool (plus insertion and extraction tools, which are very cheap, unlike the crimper) makes it very easy to replace a bent or otherwise broken pin in the field.

 

Don't forget that the pins and sockets come in a range of varieties to suit different cable conductor sizes (iirc from 0.17mm^2 to 1.5mm^2) and that it is important to choose the correct type - for audio multicore cable almost invariably the smallest variety's size range will include the cable you're using, but definitely worth checking.

 

Pete

[Yorkie]

If I use Harting connectors, is it possible for me (or any other future owner of this) to hire compatible extensions within the UK? Will using the 72DD connector enable this?

Yes - but make sure you make yours with the correct pin-out (see VDC catalogue or website for details). 72 pin version is most common (24 channels, frequently wired 20+4 on the break-outs).

I don't think the VDC website mentions a pinout for Harting connectors. Am I searching for the wrong thing?