peakin hell

[digisound]

Morning Blue room.

 

This situation has been driving me mad since it started happening. In the venue I work in we have 12 Shure S2 handhelds on the U4D recievers.

 

I recently noticed that I was getting a overwhelming peak from the microphone when a high amount of spl was applied by a singer / person.

 

So I set about looking into this matter which at first I thought was the reciever(s) hitting their peak.It turned out to be what it was.

 

I gained all the handhelds down to the lowest setting and I am still getting annoying peaks!!

 

I was wondering if anyone could shed some light of secret techniques to getting around this irratating problem.

 

 

Many Thanks

 

Craig

[Shez]

I presume with those transmitters, there's an indication that over-modulation is occurring on the TX unit itself? Is this showing up when you shout loudly in to it on the lowest gain setting? If so, I wouldn't have thought there's much you can do except turn down the vocalists a bit. I've found a small philips screwdriver inserted in to their left ear works wonders... :(

[CARWYN]

is there a gain control on the recever

[Ynot]

I'd go with Shez and advise working with the performers.

There are good and (lots of) BAD mic techniques employed by those who have no idea, and 'learn' by watching their heroes on the telly!

 

You watch some of the talented high-volume divas, however, and you'll see them move the hand mic away from their moths when they belt a top note out, thus keeping the feel of the huge hitting volume but helping the jobbing noise boy by not over-powering the receiver/desk too much.

 

The other mistake a LOT of pop-icons make is to almost eat the mic all the time.

There really is no need to get so close that spittle forms all around the windshield... :(

[Andrew C]

I don't know the mic in question, but Senheissers have a pad, accessed via the menu. Worth a look.

 

On the TX, sorry that wasn't clear!!

[digisound]

I thought this might be the case , The mics in question are the beta 58 and the sm58.

 

I guess I'll have to make some more idiot guides to mic technique as I did with not sticking your mic infront of the monitor.

 

Oh and yes on the reciever it seems to plow throught the first few greens then peak , with the handheld on the lowest gain setting.

 

But what winds me up is the venue next door has no problems at all with it and they are using the same vocaists occasionally however there handhelds systems is next shure system up from ours.

 

Could the age of the receivers have any effect ?

 

 

Thanks for the fast replies.

 

Craig

[Shez]

Could the age of the receivers have any effect ?

 

It seems like it's the transmitters causing the problem here - the damage is done before the signal even reaches the receiver.

 

I've had similar problems with G2 beltpacks and head mounted mics that have been a little too sensitive for (panto) actors - even with max pad, the mic overloads the pack's preamp. The solutions are physical (position of mic) rather than technical in this case.

 

I am slightly surprised that your handhelds can't be padded down sufficiently though - I'd have thought that Shure would have allowed for really screaming vocalists when designing the system... I'm more of a Sennheiser man though :(

[digisound]

Yeah Im a senn fan as well and I would have thought too but from the looks of it I can't seem to do anything with this issue.

 

Bloody annoying really when you get a nice mix and the next thing crunch.

 

I know another one of our venues has borrowed our handhelds maybe I should see if there receivers are doing the same .. then I can locate the problem even finer.

 

 

Thanks for all the help so far.

[cedd]

The only solution if no pad is included on the transmitter would be to make your own mechanical pad. That is, something placed inside the grille before the sound reaches the capsule.

 

This will of course change the response, pickup pattern and general behaviour of the mic and some experimentation may well be needed to find the right material for the job.

[J Pearce]

I've had problems with Shure Handheld radios being stupidly oversensitive. I had a SM58 tx in the PG range that was clipping on medium loud speech.

 

I managed to fix it by changing the sensitivity on the TX to minimum; it can still be made to clip without too much effort, but the users of that particular system never get that loud. I know I wouldn't be able to use that system with a beatboxer or rapper.

[Rob_Beech]

The ULX handhelds are also very sensitive. (it appears all the Shures are). They compress rather than distort in sound (until you really go for it).

 

I use the Senn 365's and even they give up with a VERY loud vocalist, or something shouting, on their -30dB setting.

 

I have no idea why they have to be made like this. The 865 wired mic you can scream into from a couple of mm away and get a clean sound. Put the same cap onto a 300 series wireless kit and they run out of headroom. And these are GOOD in comparison.

[StevieR]

I'm less surprised with problems using an SK365 mic, Rob. Condensors will generally have a poorer resistance to high SPL's. They would not be my personal choice for loud rock vocals or similar. Give me a dynamic for that.

 

Perhaps the difference you are seeing between the normal wired version and its wireless equivalent is down to the wireless electronics needing a lower headroom and thus clipping starts earlier?

 

Steve

[Rob_Beech]

Though I don't see why they would "need" a lower headroom, it's clear they "need" more headroom. Understand about the cond/dynamic thing but the wired 865's don't carry the same problem, so I would have expected the wireless to follow this.

 

I can't see any "sung" application where most of the mics listed in this thread and many more will be useable when not set on their lowest gain settings (typically -30dB) and that to me seems a little bit silly.

 

Rob

[StevieR]

The lower headroom may be a factor for the RF carrier - reduced bandwidth and such like. I'm not sure if of the exact ins-and-outs of the Sennheiser RF technology so this is only speculation.

 

Steve

[Shez]

I can't see any "sung" application where most of the mics listed in this thread and many more will be useable when not set on their lowest gain settings (typically -30dB) and that to me seems a little bit silly.

 

Indeed. I have used them with lower pad settings as table mics in banqueting type scenarios where the speaker was going to be more than a few inches away from the mic and couldn't project properly. And with other people when projection was a problem. I guess they have to try to cover the full gamut from whisperers to screamers, which is likely to be a wider dynamic range than most will let you switch.

 

I suspect battery voltage comes in to it too - I seem to recall the G2s step up the battery voltage to 9v though.