Budget smoke machines

[mark_s]

Hey everyone,

 

I have a question regarding the operation of the remote on budget smoke machines (specifically this):

1. Is the remote just a simple push-to-make switch, or does it do anything remotely clever inside?
   
2. Does the remote operate at mains potential or not?
   

I had a quick search of the forum and skimmed the manual and couldn't find a conclusive answer. I'm stuck with one for an upcoming Christmas Concert at my old school, and have the slight problem of being about 30M away from the smoke machine. I have a quick-and-dirty solution to make it remotely operated, but I can't get at said machine to find those answers out until the day of the concert and I'd rather go prepared :)

 

Thanks in advance for any help

 

Regards,

Mark

 

Edit: I meant to fill in the second bit of the title a bit more fully and totally forgot before I hit post. I don't suppose a moderator could fix it?

[Ike]

1, Yes, in addition it has a neon to tell you it's up to temperature but it isn't strictly required.

2, Yes.

[mark_s]

Excellent! Thanks for the quick reply Ike.

[smalljoshua]

Just out of intrest what is your idea to control the machine?

[ImagineerTom]

Yes they run at mains voltage

 

there's 3 core cable going in to them, it's useuall "mains" cable but DON'T follow the cable colours to determin what's actually going where; the last one I popped open was running the mains currant up the earth and returning it via the brown "live" line.

 

At it's most basic level all you have to do is short out across 2 of the lines to make the unit smoke BUT we're talking mains voltage here and without seeing the remote myself I couldn't tell you which lines you need to short. Play safe and either make an extention cable (maplins sell everything you need) or get a radio control unit for it.

[mark_s]

Just out of intrest what is your idea to control the machine?

 

IEC plug to 13A trailing socket to remote control socket to 13A plug shorted across the relevant terminals (with suitable warning labels attached). Like I said, quick and dirty, but (as far as I can see) perfectly safe. We have several remote-control sockets lying around doing nothing, and pretty much £0 budget.

 

Don't worry Tom, I'm not a complete idiot - I'm certainly not about to fry myself.

[bruce]

Oh dear oh dear....

 

Apart from the concerns about a "shorted plug" (I assume it'll be PATted :) ), there's a fair chance that the remote control switch won't work, as it'll rely on the mains feed on the "supply" side to power the unit. When "shorted", you would lose the power supply to the device....

 

I would suspect that if you brought a device like that into most venues, it would be shown the door. In many cases, you would be invited to follow...

[mark_s]

In that case I may rethink my plan, but...

 

What are the potential issues, apart from the potential for misuse by other people? What are the issues with such a 'shorted plug' from a technical viewpoint in this context? I'd very much like to learn from my mistakes and failed ideas.

[bruce]

1. It is reasonable to assume that a "normal" plug can be plugged into a corresponding "normal" socket. In this case, your plug would "make things go bang".

 

2. I doubt that the device would pass a standard PAT.

 

3. Labels can fall off. And rarely get read....

 

4. (all contributions welcome)

 

 

It's a school concert. There will be plenty of "helpers". Assign one to button-pressing duty.

[mark_s]

1. I agree, but in this case it's a temporary solution to be used for one night, and will be 5M above the nearest fiddling hands. I concede that 'it'll only be used by competent people' is a pretty pathetic defence though.

 

2. But would it have to be PAT tested separately to the smoke machine? Could it not be argued that it is part of the smoke machine and not a portable appliance in its own right?

 

3. See 1

 

I'd love to hear other opinions on the matter too - like I said, you live and learn :)

[Bryson]

1: "Temporary" is not a sufficent excuse for "not safe." Think about how accidents happen - your temporary controlled useage equipment gets into stock, gets used by someone who doesn't know what it does, someone dies. Not pretty.

 

2: Absolutely. But then the whole smoke machine fails the test, so you're further back than when you started.

[Ynot]

Hmmm...

 

Forgive me if I'm over-simplifying the solution here...

 

Assumption: The remote control 'input' on the machine is a standard IEC socket, yes?

This is similar to several other smoke machines I've seen/used, including our little Jem Magnum 550.

 

With that assumption, why can you not simply use an IEC extension cable?

That will just extend the relevant pins out to your existing remote.

And the IEC cable can be easily PAT tested as per normal cables (yes, cables DO need PAT tests).

 

No?

[mark_s]

An extension would be the best solution, but we don't happen to have a 20M IEC extension, and I happen to have the bits lying around to do what I've just described.

 

In what way would such a device be likely to fail a PAT test by the way?

[Ynot]

An extension would be the best solution, but we don't happen to have a 20M IEC extension, and I happen to have the bits lying around to do what I've just described.

You don't have the bits to make up an extension cable... Do you have one of those 13A switches you linked to? I suspect not, so you'd need to order one, yes?

EDIT - just reread one of your later posts and ok, so you DO already have those remote sockets on site... BUT they WILL NOT do the job you want to do, and that's NOT WHAT THEY WERE DESIGNED TO DO!!

So pop down to your local electrical wholesalers, buy a length of suitable cable (preferably rated at 10A) and an IEC plug & socket, then have a competent electrician make one up!

And then get it PAT tested.

In what way would such a device be likely to fail a PAT test by the way?

Same way as ANY device fails PAT - by being incorrectly wired or unsafe, or both.

[mark_s]

I don't have 20M of suitable cable lying around, and this is a one-time thing and not my smoke machine, and I have no use for a 20M IEC extension beyond this one time. Coincidentally I actually do have one of those remote-control sockets lying around; we used them to good effect in the summer to control some lights on some movable steps (don't ask).

 

In light of the serious shortcomings people have pointed out, I'll definitely be rethinking the plan (and finding someone to sit in the wings and prod the button on cue :))