Risk assesments

[Ben]

im sure everyone knows that the rules say risk assesments must be carried out by a competant person; my qusetion is how can I prove myself to be a competant person?

 

situation is that a new space wishes to hire me as a part time house technician and wants me to "over see" the H&S side of things aswell, problem is they have asked me to prove I am a competant person with respect to risk assesment. sure I can ask one of my lecturers at CSSD to say I am, but they have asked me to then prove that they are a competant person to have given me this assesment. it seems to be a cycle that could go on forever, HELP PLEASE ;) :blink: :huh:

 

Ben

[Fiona]

bit of a catch 22 situation......there obviously isn't a piece of paper that you are given to show you are a competant person, however you need to demonstatre your expertise with examples of any training that you may have had that is relevant to Risk Assessment, and any experience you may have had in the area to also support this.

 

IE Have attended various courses run by the ABTT on risk assesment, manual handling, pat testing, electrical installation etc Have worked in a variety of venues carrying out Risk Assesments when needed for visiting and resident companies for various situations.

 

You should have certification of any training you have been on which in effect shows you have been taught the correct methods, your experience then shows you have put this in to practice......that is how I have got round the situation anyway....being competant is a very dodgy area that can be read in many different ways - make sure that you don't put yourself in a situation that you are not competant in......could lead to all manner of problems for you!!!

[robloxley]

A competent person is defined under the Management of Health and Safety at Work Regulations as someone who "has sufficient training and experience or knowledge and other qualities to enable him properly to assist" the employer in undertaking the required measures (remember, it is the employer's responsibility to implement H&S, unless you are self-employed). Competent persons may be employees or non-employees e.g. an external consultant or specialist.

 

Competent Persons should have a knowledge and understanding of the work being assessed, the principles of Risk Assessment and prevention of risk, up to date Health and Safety measures, identification of hazards at work etc. etc.

 

Fiona's suggestions are quite sensible - suitable training is important in competence.

 

In appointing a competent person, however, employers do not rid themselves of their responsibility for health and safety. Employers still have ultimate responsiblity, facing civil or criminal legal proceedings if failures lead to an accident, or ill health.

 

So, back to this case:

You should be able to decide whether you are a competent person for the specific tasks (you may be for some e.g. electrical safety, but not for others e.g. lifting and LOLER stuff) you are being asked to look after. Get the employer to detail EXACTLY what areas you will be expected to 'oversee' and to what level: even if you're not at the stage to be doing the risk assessments and developing safe working practices, you may well be at a sufficient level to implement those drawn up already by the venue and or H&S consultant (with a caveat regarding ongoing re-assessment of risks) etc.

 

On a more basic level, if someone has a serious or fatal injury, would you be happy to stand up in court and back the risk assessment its implementation (safe working procedure)? (yes, I know it would be the employer in the dock, but you would no doubt be called.)

[Ben]

I would be more than happy to stand up on court with my risk assesments and show that the risk has been reduced as much as possible, and show that I have thought about all relevent associated risks. the training I have had is little in the form of courses and more in the way of learning on the job, identifying risks and filling out paperwork, while learning from a technical manager supervisng me.

I have been instructed in how to properly fill out a risk assesment and I would myself consider myself competant to do all the risk assesments needed for this job, (mainly electrical, and working at hight).

the problem is that there is no way for me to prove that I am competant and I dont have time, or the money to start extra courses just to get a peice of paper to say I can do what I already can.

 

ben

[robloxley]

the problem is that there is no way for me to prove that I am competant and I dont have time, or the money to start extra courses just to get a peice of paper to say I can do what I already can

And this is exactly the crux of the problem. If you haven't had sufficient, documented training, you can't prove a lot. I can't remember exactly, but I seem to recall that you specifically can't substitute pure experience for training with regards to competence.

So, if you've not done the required training etc. and your employer wants you to do a job that requires you to have done so, then they need to pay for you to go and do it - or employ a consultant to oversee the relevant bits. That's where the bit about the competent person having sufficient resources and time etc. to do the job comes in.

 

However, surely they should already have done the appropriate risk assessments and already have much of the paperwork? Therefore you won't really be doing much ongoing risk assessment and risk analysis etc. (with the caveat of regularly re-evaluating the existing paperwork etc.) so it will be more implementing their existing H&S policy?

[Thirdtap]

'Lo

I think that for risk assesments outside your working (or regular) enviroment you really need to attend a risk assesment course. I did in a previous post working for a local council and I found it very useful. Common sense risk assesment is very good for yourself and your regular place of work, but you will need to know certain procedures if you are drawing up guidelines for an enviroment that is unknown.

Hope this helps

;)

[Ben]

it is my normal place of work, I have worked there for about 6 months since th ebuilding was finnished but its only know that I am being re employed in this capacity. in a way thats the problem, untill now there has been noone doing risk assesments and I refused to work untill I could see they were being done, they aske me to do them and then asked me to prove myself competant.

[Tom]

Ben,

Are they asking you to Risk Asses the whole building (or an area of the building)?

Do you have experience or training in doing this. I'd have thought it is a different thing to the on going risk assessment involved in staging a production. I have over ten years experience as a touring Stage and Production Manager but very little building based experience. As such I'm not sure I would consider myself competent to risk asses a building.

If I were you I would suggest to them that they get somebody to come in and do the initial assessment with you (I'm sure the ABTT could recommend somebody). That way you are covered, the building management are covered and you can take on the day to day implementation of their recommendations.

[Ben]

the initial risk assesments for the building have been done. I am being asked to do risk assesments for productions being staged and to keep the general risk assesments up to date. its more for the incoming companies so that if they are doing things that are not usual for the space it would have had the risk assesments done e.g use of pyros.

its not for the whole building but for 3 spaces in the same building each of which is an independant space.

I have had some training to do risk assesments at CSSD and have done them for this sort of thing for about 4 years, the first year of which they were then checked by others to insure they were correct. the problem is that I have never done a specific course in risk assesments and therefore dont have any sort of certification to show I am competant.

[Thirdtap]

I still suggest that you attend a formal risk assesment course. It sounds like you know what you are doing but as you mention you have no evidence of training. You must remember that in health and safety law you are guilty until proven innocent. So presenting a case of 'I was unaware of that' at an enquiry or at court will not cover you.

I know from previous jobs that the type of risk assesment for my venue which was fine for many years wasn't good enough for health and safety department.

The other areas of risk assesment also to cover are fire risk assesment, COSHH - as well as the chemicals you use, this should take into account the dust / mists / debris you make in the process of building, repairing, using equipment.

With all the areas to cover it can get a bit too much sometimes and as ever the budget for health and safety normally isn't enough.

;)

[BFBSM]

Attending a recognise Risk Assessment course is the way to go.

 

I would be contacting the ABTT regarding a course. Your Local Govenrment Licensing department should aslo be able to point you in the right direction.

 

Also if you have copies of the risk previous assessments you have carried out, and which have been countersigned by easily contactable people and who are recognised as being involved in safety, e.g. Union Safety Representatives, then this would, in my view, indicate competence.

[angel]

*bees quite offended by robloxley*

 

thanks ben for his comments on passing my warm wishes to my collegues at CSSD and posts links to adhere to thread,

 

 

http://www.hse.gov.uk/

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg163.pdf

 

Click on risk assessment requirements and also five steps to risk assessment. :D

 

angel

[Ben]

thanks angel ;)

 

still not sure what I said that offended <_< but it seems to have been deleated now.

dont supose the moderator that deleated it would pm me to let me know what I said please so I dont say the same thing again.

 

thanks for all your help.

Ben

[Colin Proudfoot]

The way I did this was by doing a risk assment for my bosses and them looking at my work and saying YES

 

And how did your bosses prove their competence to judge your RA ? <_<

[Rob]

My lecturer tells me ( having just had a session on risk assessment as part of my Degree in Lighting Design) that having completed the section of my course on Risk Assessment, I can be deemed legally competent.

 

Any thoughts?? Its not a formal qualification in risk assessment after all, but it is a degree in the end...