First lighting.

[Josh 2]

Hi all,

 

Could anyone please tell me where to start and what might be a normal progression for lighting a 4/5 piece band in small/medium pub/club venues?

 

My apologies, I don't know any of the terminology or the effects that particular lights create. We just have a local band that so far has no lighting and I'm wondering if this might enhance things.

 

My thoughts are to start with some general lighting and if that works out then move onto some effects.

 

Much appreciate it if anyone can advise me where to start, or even where to start looking… I've been through all the 12 pages in the BR lighting section.

 

Many thanks,

Josh.

[dunk_1984]

Perhaps THIS section of Thomann could be of interest?

[Trunker]

2 Alpha Packs and 6 Par 64's and 2 T-bars I would go with. But what is your budget? With 15a extensions I would imaging this coming to just under £1000.

[Josh 2]

Thanks dunk 1984, appreciate the link, but that seems to cover a multitude of options of which my lack of knowledge precludes me from understanding 'what is what' and 'what does what'… my problem I know.

 

Thanks also Trunker. The band isn't rich, but there isn't a start-out budget as such. It is more of a case of building up as and when funds permit. I understand the PAR's and T'bars, can I show my ignorance and ask what Alpha Packs are and are the 15a extensions referring to the power cords/wiring?... sorry if I'm being thick.

 

Would we use the 6 PAR's to illuminate the band members?

 

Thanks again,

Josh.

[mark_s]

Alpha packs are 3-channel dimmer packs which allow you to dim the PARs/whatever else you plug into them. 15A extensions are (power) extensions, but with the 'old' round-pin plugs/sockets, which are still widely used for lighting for various reasons.

[Trunker]

Ok just to add to that (sorry if I didn't explain myself fully). a 13a socket will give out 3120 watts of power which will give you ample of what you need for 3 x 1000 watt Par 64's (3x1000= 3000), plus a bit of spare power for any losses in the alpha pack etc. This is why you will need 2 for 6 Pars'.

 

If you get these (I would recommend getting the Alpha pack 2 because they have DMX and analouge outputs) you can later add a small desk (and more alphas and lanterns if required) and use the desk to store scenes etc. A small desk like a Strand 100 may suit your requirements. Good luck with your project.

[boatman]

Hi Josh,

 

Another retired member I see. Have a look at this thread for some good advice. Personally I would not go for 1kW PAR64, but either 500W PAR64 or 300W PAR56. That way you can have more lanterns totalling the same load. That will give you more versatility with positioning and colour; and will be less catastrophic should a lamp fail.

[Bobbsy]

Hi Josh!

 

Greetings from a third retired member! I'm not going to try and baffle you with another equipment list (though my thoughts would be more akin to boatman, i.e. more lamps of a smaller wattage) but I may have a bit of lateral thinking.

 

The sort of set up you're after is relatively simple, but much easier to understand if you can actually see a dimmer pack, a controller, a few parcans, and so on. Simple text in a forum is a much more difficult way to learn.

 

Your profile doesn't say where you are, but I'd be very surprised if you couldn't find at least one AmDram group with a will volunteer lighting person (or three!). Failing that, your local upper school or college is likely full of A level students dying to prove then know lighting. If I were you, I'd get on the phone and find somebody who can give you a hands on tour of a small system. Once you've done that, you could probably come back with a much more detailed and specific set of queries!

 

Whatever you do, good luck! Let's show those young whippersnappers!

 

Bob

[p.k.roberts]

Hi Josh,

 

Are you looking to initially just illuminate the band to make them a focal point, or are you looking for 'eye-candy' for the audience? Do you have someone to operate the lights or will they be operated by band members?

 

Assuming the illumination/band operated option the simplest solution would be a couple of stands with t-bars, each with a couple of PARs which you plug straight into the nearest 13 amp socket (or extension lead). Turn them on when you are about to begin and off when you've finished. I would also, given the size of venue you seem to be describing, go for the PAR 56 option. This could all be achieved with a very modest budget.

 

To expand at a future date, you could add a few more PARs and then think about some kind of control system. Again there are various options, but if this is going to be 'band operated' then there are foot operated controllers designed to do this. They tend to give 'on', 'off' or 'do something flashy' options, so are not high art, but might do the job for you. Alternatively, you could invest in some dimmer packs (and there are various attractively priced units of eastern manufacture available if budget is tight) and a small desk. This option would probably need someone to operate it for you to get the most out of it, but would give more creative options and allow you to expand your range of effects.

[Brian]

I have a 'band kit' I hire out which contains...

 

2 stands

2 t-bars each with 4x500W par64s

2 showtec 4-way dimmers

 

...that lot will set up back around £450 delivered and will run happily on 2 x 13A sockets with buckets to spare. The dimmers have in-build chase patterns and can be linked with a simple 3-pin cable.

 

Don't bother with the Alphapacks, they are too expensive for what you need.

[Trunker]

I have a 'band kit' I hire out which contains...

 

2 stands

2 t-bars each with 4x500W par64s

2 showtec 4-way dimmers

 

...that lot will set up back around £450 delivered and will run happily on 2 x 13A sockets with buckets to spare. The dimmers have in-build chase patterns and can be linked with a simple 3-pin cable.

 

Don't bother with the Alphapacks, they are too expensive for what you need.

 

How do you find the Showtec dimmers Brian? Personnally I find the dimming curve a bit strange, but for what you pay for them (£79 each?) well worth it. And they are DMX! Only annoying part is they have IEC connectors, but you can get these from a DIY shop unlike 15a plugs.

[Brian]

How do you find the Showtec dimmers Brian? ....

For the application I use them for, and the money, they are fine (but see my old posts about their power-up issue). I'm not sure I'd want to do any subtle multi-part fades with them but that's what I have Betapacks for.

[Josh 2]

Hi guy's,

 

Thanks very much for all the info/links etc… I've taken it all in.

 

@ p.k. roberts. I 'guess' I should illuminate the band members first, this is kind of one of the questions I was trying to address and it 'seems' that this would be the logical first step Y/N?. At the moment I operate the sound desk FOH & Mon (20mtr multicore) and it will no doubt be my role to work any lighting, which brings another thought… is lighting usually (or can be) controlled via multicore?, thinking of the future if/when a controller is an option.

 

I've been doing lots of reading, but can I just clarify that I'm getting it right… PAR's are (and I apologise if I've got this wrong!) akin to what the uneducated, like me, would call a 'spotlight' albeit of a low'ish output/less focused variety?. Also conventional/standard PAR's are single output colour, usually white, which can be changed by the physical fitting of coloured filters (gels!?)… so in there basic form you can turn on/off (and/or dim if a dimmer is used) one colour?

 

If the above is correct, have I got it correct (I realise these can be a controversial subject!) that LED PAR's come in a multi-colour format that can be changed/controlled via a controller?

 

I've read the threads and wiki's and I ended up at a thread that referred to another thread as having the definitive answer about LED's… but it didn't!. Are LED's worth investing in???... from what I have seen in other applications, so called white LED's seem to have a blue'ish, almost UV type of output and I wonder at an LED's ability to 'project' it's output… have I got this all wrong!?

 

Obviously, from what you guy's have kindly told me, I will start off with some PAR's. Is it a case, as with most, of getting what you pay for… quality/function wise?. I'm bound to make some mistakes, but was wondering if I should 'dip a toe in' with something like this: Musicstore

 

Thanks all for your help.

 

Josh.

[mark_s]

Lighting is (usually) controlled by DMX, which can control up to to 512 things in the same 'universe'. I say things because it'd be slightly untrue to say fixtures, as some take up several DMX channels. A dimmer will only take up one though, so you could control 512 parcans in the same universe. A multicore isn't needed because the data is transmitted down one cable, and each fixture is daisy chained, so you have:

 

desk ------------ dimmer 1 ------------ dimmer 2 ------------ etc ------------ terminator

 

if that makes sense. If it doesn't, the simple way to put it would be you can control up to 512 lanterns using the same cable :)

 

Parcans are technically classed as a floodlight, as they have no method of focusing whatsoever. The only way to change the diameter of the beam is to change the lamp. They are indeed single-colour - white - unless you use a filter. There's nothing to stop you from making a multicoloured filter up though (a 'split gel'), other than the fact that it'd look very odd for what you're using them for :(

[ace]

Hi all,

 

Something that I have been wondering about is how well the economy LED fixtures might compare when in small intimate venues such as pubs? Fixtures such as: http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/Audio,+Video+&a...jsp?sku=DP30018 will only set you back about £50 each and you can choose from loads of basic DMX controllers for about £50 as well.

 

This would give you a cheaper setup, which you could add more fixtures to as you found more money. The power ratings are very low, and of course there is no need for separate dimmers and you have the flexibility of colour mixing which may make up for the difference in light output as you could set all of the cans to the same colour each change (or pairs of colours etc) rather than using a single can for each colour?

 

Has anyone had any experience of these economy fixtures? - I would love to know if this is feasible?

 

Chris