Help Chosing Sound System

[smalljoshua]

Hi all I am looking for a high SPL system sutable for use with the playing of music and also wireless mics.

 

The Budget is approx £1500-2000.

 

The current setup was Installed to help with assemblies and vocal re-infrocement. There are 6 unknown brand speakers and a similary unbranded amp it is all connceted in series and in mono. When on the open evening (once again if you have seen the other topic) the head teacher decided to ask for the volume to be turned up the clueless IT tec just turned everything to full right (1u rack mixer) and adjusted the volume on the Laptop.

 

The music is "Queen-It's a kind of Magic" and also the modern stuff that is used at Dance shows Etc (umbrella etc).

 

I have been asked to spec "A full output system" I.E Amps, Speakers, Subs, Crossovers, Etc Etc.

 

To try and reduce the size of the speakers Is it possible to use say 2-3 smaller stereo pairs instead of 1 large pair?

 

Could you please stay confined to the brands avaliable from SE Please.

 

Thank you All in advance

Josh

[dave singleton]

Give us a ring in the office tomorrow. We specialise in school installations and can offer pritty much anything.

[Mr.Si]

Forgive me please, but I don't know who SE are.

[MarkPAman]

Stage Electrics? ;)

[Shez]

South East?

[Simon Lewis]

Hi, Josh,

 

You can approach most firms and ask for a system to fit your budget. It will make a noise, and may satisfy some of your requirements, but it would probably not be ideal.

 

I would suggest that a better approach would be to determine what the specific requirements and needs are (from the school management viewpoint, as well as any technical, electroacoustic, aesthetic or ergonomic viewpoint) and then design the system and choose components that achieve that design specification.

 

A good sales firm / inetgrator should do this, but for every good one, there's the install that fits a load of less than ideal gear because it fits the budget.

Sometimes that budget is fixed and immovable. Other times it's simply what someone thought it would cost to fix the problem.

 

Just a thought..

 

Simon

[Dan Gruner]

When you say "a high SPL system" is this the only important consideration for the new system, or does quality come into it? Its very easy (and cheap) to create a lot of noise, but much harder (and a lot more money) to create the kind of "noise" you would like to listen to!

 

A budget of £1500 - £2000 is going to go nowhere towards even some of the components required for a good system, let alone having it *professionally* installed.

 

Dan

[Rob_Beech]

A budget of £1500 - £2000 is going to go nowhere towards even some of the components required for a good system, let alone having it *professionally* installed.

 

Dan

*my bold

 

I think this is a little unfair. As the saying goes, its what you do with it that counts. It's not a particularly high budget for a complete system where you are requiring high spl, we can all agree there but its all about working with what you have budget for and working with what you've got. My guess is the sound quality that the OP and co wish to achieve is not that of a £3k per box system, but want reasonable quality at useable levels on a tight budget. A pair of subs and a pair of tops that can be positioned correctly may be all you need. A pair of amps, and an active crossover, what else you need you'd have to tell us. Not knowing the size of this room then we cannot suggest any further.

[Ken Hughes]

I agree with Dan therefore in this instance 'hire when necessary' has to be your best option.

There's usually a budget for hire somewhere in the murky depths of CC bureaucracy!

 

You've specified the following "....A full output system" I.E Amps, Speakers, Subs, Crossovers, Etc Etc".

 

I wonder what your two "etc" may be in your wishlist but let's just say they won't be affordable on your budget, not if it's just £1.5 - £2k which in reality wouldn't even act as a half decent deposit for a school hall sound system offering acceptable performance.

If long life, good quality and sensible SPLs are the essential ingredients of your system ..... start saving.

 

Oh, and spread your thoughts on suppliers too; there's loads of good ones out there who offer good advice and service.

Blinkered purchasing could seriously damage your wallet.

 

Ken Hughes @ Shermann

[paulears]

My experience is that educational budgets don't have the hire option as standard practice - they usually see it as wasted money.

 

School budgets come in two varieties. The properly considered, often bid for, major ones, and the operational budget. Some schools and colleges use terms such as capital items, for the big projects and BSME (the origin of the term is a bit vague, but usually stems from Books, Supplies, Materials and Equipment). This type of budget is quite big, and can be spent by th department heads pretty well on a whim. So a thrifty HOD can have a bit in the kitty to spend without too much hassle - and pretty well private from other departments. Capital bids can be much more expensive, but have to be planned well in advance. A school I was visiting recently have a sound system bid for their main hall - the preferred quote sits at just over £23,000 for mixer, amps, cable system, loudspeakers and mics with a bit of basic outboard. This is not a big system, but ideal for their needs. There were a few unusual components, but it was a decent balanced system.

 

 

The OPs budget suggests a bit of spare BSME hence the low budget - and you really aren't going to get much for the money. As has been sensibly said. High SPL and quality in one sentence don't often go together.

[smalljoshua]

Thanks everyone for your replies. I will consider other suppliers but the school has only ever dealt with stage-electrics (don't ask me why). In terms of sound the Head just wants more humph in the system, when I asked Her today whether she just meant more bass she said that was what she meant so I may now look to get the Speakers turned into stereo and Spec 2 Subs an amp and crossover.

 

That taken into consideration, what will my budget get me?

2 Subs

Amp

Crossover

No cables needed as Speakon patch already fitted to both sides of stage (don't know why)

[mal421]

If your school has only dealt with Stage Electrics did they install your current sound system ? If they did then the chances are you could have a half decent system already . Maybe it would be worthwhile finding out a bit more about the equipment you already have before you spend your budget . I once was asked to give some advice to an organisation in the same situation as you . Because they didn't recognise the badge on their speakers they thought what they had was not very good , the badge had a big letter M on it.

[smalljoshua]

If your school has only dealt with Stage Electrics did they install your current sound system ? If they did then the chances are you could have a half decent system already . Maybe it would be worthwhile finding out a bit more about the equipment you already have before you spend your budget . I once was asked to give some advice to an organisation in the same situation as you . Because they didn't recognise the badge on their speakers they thought what they had was not very good , the badge had a big letter M on it.

Stage didn't do the current install, it was installed for the hard of hearing by Conveans. IIRC it was to replace an Induction loop system (but no Loop amp was installed afterwards) the system is very very loud on the highs but there are literally no lows so thats why I asked the head to clarify today and she Just wans more bass in the system.

[Ben Lawrance]

Before spending any money, just have a look at any EQ's that may be in the system. Schools are notorious for little fingers.

[bruce]

So let's look at this thread more closely..

 

First of all the OP says they need a "High SPL" system. Mention playing of music and wireless mics. Budget is mentioned. No details of the room, although we can infer that it's a school hall. No mention of size, height, construction etc. No real description of the type of events that will be hosted.

 

Some sketchy description of the existing kit, but no details. Is it really all "unbranded"? Is there no label at all? Or is it just a label that isn't recognised? And I doubt that it's all "connected in series".

 

Then we get mention of the "clueless IT technician". I wonder if he reads this forum. Or if anyone will forward that posting to him. The OP mentions his school in his profile, it took me about 20 seconds to find out the It technician's name. How To Make Friends And Influence People.

 

 

The next day we get another post, with a rather different perspective - more "humph" (whatever that is). We're now told that the existing kit (which yesterday was unbranded rubbish operated by a clueless technician) may well be perfectly adequate (but still no details on what it actually is!) and all that is required is subs & crossover. Hmmm..... does anyone who made that decision actually know what they're talking about?

 

 

Bearing in mind that nobody on this forum has seen the venue, never mind surveyed it, and bearing in mind that the client isn't particularly clear about what they want, all we can suggest is:

 

1. Write down exactly what you (and by this I mean the school authorities - the people with the authority to spend the budget) feel the system will be required to do, what is deficient in the current system, and what they would hope to gain from a new install. This is actually a very useful exercise - putting it down on paper forces people to think more carefully about what they're trying to achieve rather than making vague statements about "more SPL" and "more humph".

 

2. Ask a reputable supplier to specify, demonstrate and install....

 

I sit on a school board (well, I did until recently - they've now been abolished in scotland) - I can imagine the reaction we would have had if someone had asked our head about a spend of several thousand pounds on technical equipment and if he had replied "Well, we asked one of the pupils to specify something. We didn't really know what we wanted. He didn't seem to know much about it either, but went onto an internet forum, and asked some people who he'd never met, and who had never seen the venue, what to buy....."

 

Sorry if this has turned into a rant.