PC based control or lighing desk control, which?

[ianknight]

Apparently, Genlyte Strand had encountered a lot of 'resistance' from the lighting community about the fact the software ran on Linux

Do you have a reference for that? I'd like to see what people were objecting to, as I can't recall ever hearing of people saying "I don't want that product because it runs embedded Linux". Most people don't care what the embedded OS is on any product as long as the overall result is stable.

 

It was at a presentation to dealers by GenLyte after the takeover was announced, as they reassured dealers that Strand (and the product line) would continue largely as before. No specifics were mentioned as to what folk didnt like about Linux just that there had been some 'resistance' from people who had already seen the Palette consoles.

 

Speaking personally, it don't make a difference what the OS is on the PC - just don't run anything else while the console software is running. Yes, dual boot if you want but if surfing or drawing rig plans is really essential whilst you operate a show then get another PC - as previous posters have said, its not like they're expensive!

[Brent Smith]

I'd like to place my vote strongly on the User Interface side of the fence.

 

Any lighting controller, (desk console, or laptop) should just be a collection of tools readily available at the programmers need. My guess is that most consoles and PC programs are capable of the basic necessities. The difference is in the ease and quickness with which you access these tools.

 

If you are using the controllers in these five spaces as teaching tools, (and, of course, if there is any way you can afford it) I would suggest going the route of true lighting consoles. Having real buttons and sliders with their function stamped on them are significantly easier learn and understand conceptually. My experience PC controllers is that by default, everything is accessed through the mouse and by QWERTY keyboard combos. This usually results in a lot of drop down menus, dialogue boxes, Capital so and so, Lower case something else, CNTRL this, and ALT that. Learning that stuff is one thing, as any rabid PC gamer will tell you, but teaching it is another. Also, I think it takes certain mentality to even be open to learning that sort of interface in order to simply manipulate lights, as any rabid anti-PC gamer will tell you. PC controllers are made to mimic the functions of desk consoles so it would seem to make more sense to learn the fundamentals on a desk.

 

If you are forced into the PC route, try to find a slider wing of some sort. Also, I been referred to (but haven't tried yet) a product called X Buttons (or something like that.) This is a PC keyboard/pad with programmable buttons like macros.

 

 

 

By the Way,

ETC's custom operating software / interface, Strand lighting, another reputable company runs many of there consoles on WINDOWS XP including the everpopular Light Palatte series.

Erm, since when did Light Palette run on XP....? :)

The confusion is obvious here. By including the term everpopular, he inadvertently referred to the now defunct though still popular Light Palette OS boards. The current Light Palette Series haven't been around long enough to be "ever" anything except for, in my experience, crashy, and therefore too early to be popular.

[Ynot]

But I can relate my experience of operating shows on a PC. I've never lost a show.

<snip>

I can also say I generally use a specific show-only PC, which has limited software installed, no AV, never goes on the net, doesn't get patched.

<snipped more>

But, thats just my paranoia. I sometimes do shows on the laptop, as it's more convenient, particularly one-offs. When I do this I shut down all the junk that appears in the system tray etc., and just run whats required.

BUT that is where, as I say, the argument fails.

OK - you can afford to run a single clean, controlled PC with LX software on it. Great. That is why it's a safer bet.

I'm willing to bet though that many people who use PC based sound & lighting solutions can't make the same claim....

 

We have such a dedicated PC in our sound room that was installed JUST for SFX playback, with a prog created for us that runs very well. It works fine and is also supposedly clean of all non-essential cr*p, BUT because I can't control the raft of amateur techs who use the facilities I've noticed over the past couple of years that the odd bit & bob that I haven't authorised have appeared! This is on a machine that I thought I'd secured with only limited access to the admin rights to install stuff! At the moment it's trustworthy BUT if left unchecked it will degrade until one day a cue comes out a second or so too late because something else is hogging the memory at that time!

 

The system doesn't need to crash to give problems as a show controller. Delays are almost as bad.

[Zak]

I think Ynot brings up an important point here: using a PC-based solution means that the tech in charge of maintaining it also has to be an administrator for whatever OS is running on the PC. It needs to be configured in a sane and stable way, and locked down so that idiots don't screw it up. Once that's done, an image should be made of the hard drive so that it can be put back to this state when somebody inevitably builds a better idiot who does find a way to screw it up.

 

That said, I've used my laptop for a few shows. It's my primary general-purpose computer, and it's got plenty of random stuff on it having nothing to do with lighting. I'm using it to type this very message. Why? Because I'm one of those "better idiots" I was talking about - the kind who thinks he knows what he's doing.

[david.elsbury]

As much as I hate the OS, Wind0ws V1sta has p@rental c0ntrols which are very, very effective at restricting programs, and such from being executed. IE, if it's not on the allow list, it gets blocked!

 

(some words mangled to prevent search bots)

 

David

[ben.suffolk]

Also, I been referred to (but haven't tried yet) a product called X Buttons (or something like that.) This is a PC keyboard/pad with programmable buttons like macros.

 

That would be the X Keys range of keyboards from PI Engineering. I have been looking into them for Custom Input in Chameleon, the Mac OS/X software I am writing.

 

The keycaps come off so you can put your own legends on. You can replace single keys with doubles for things like and Enter key. The disadvantage to them is that they are not cheap, at around £100 or so a unit.

 

Regards

 

Ben

[mac.calder]

David: You can do the same with most of the windows' - the NT range being the best at it. It is not as user friendly as Vista - as it involved either using group policies or the registry, however when setting up control PC's it is worth it.

[Matt Riley]

Also, don't forget XP lite, which is a very effective way of getting rid of the non essential gumpf that comes with windows.

 

Linky: http://www.litepc.com/xplite.html

[mac.calder]

Or you could look at creating a BartPE type live CD/USB Key. If you use a USB key with a very stable, stripped version of windows, then you will have a very fast, dedicated lighting control system that can be plugged into any PC with a USB slot to spare. It is just a matter of spending the time to create it. If I were forced to use a PC control system without a dedicated show PC then this is certainly the way I would go.

 

That said, give me a console any day.

[Zak]

I'd go with MagicQ on Linux if I was building a PC-based system and either give it a dedicated partition or run it off a live CD and USB disk. Part of it is personal bias, but I think Linux is less fragile and easier to lock down than Windows. MagicQ is quite nice; I'd prefer a GrandMA, but MagicQ is probably my second choice.

[garsty]

FWIW

 

We use Chamsys Maxi Wings and PC wings on a lot of our shows. The software is very good and its got some really good features

 

I would recommend using a wing with it as it can be slow to program off your laptop ( not the fault of the software)

 

You should get in touch with them and see to they do deals for educational institutions.

 

Also older laptops with the slower USB speed can cause the desk to react a bit strangely at times but this is not a problem with newer laptops. Have used the Entec DMX dongle with it when I've been stuck and I cant fault it.

 

;) :P :)

[stgtech]

By the Way,

ETC's custom operating software / interface, Strand lighting, another reputable company runs many of there consoles on WINDOWS XP including the everpopular Light Palatte series.

Erm, since when did Light Palette run on XP....? :)

The confusion is obvious here. By including the term everpopular, he inadvertently referred to the now defunct though still popular Light Palette OS boards. The current Light Palette Series haven't been around long enough to be "ever" anything except for, in my experience, crashy, and therefore too early to be popular.

 

 

I stand corrected.

[cheryllucy]

Hi, I look after all the lighting equipment in a school with 5 theatres. Currently all of them are equipped with normal DMX consoles, but these are getting to the point of needing to be replaced.

 

The Drama teachers want to replace them with PCs running a programme called PC Stage, as they contend this will be both cheaper and more flexible.

 

Sadly I have no experience with PC based lighting control systems, and feel the need of some advice in this area.

 

Do any of you have any thoughts as to whether it is better to work with "normal" lighting desks, or with a PC, or is there really no difference in the degree of control and flexibility between the two systems?

 

Any comments would be very welcome.

Tony Cole

 

 

I also work in a few schools; whilst I am 'FOR' using pc's I'm cynical about it in schools as I know how easy it is to end up using a pc base station for all sorts of other things - particularly if a drama teacher really needs a pc to do something.....

[paulears]

Well - the teacher needs to think again. The kind of thing they have in mind will no doubt do the job, but is not in any way, student friendly, or to be fair, capable of doing what the vast kit of this kind does - get lights on, quickly, with just a shove of the hand. Waiting while a pc boots up, then having to use a mouse is very ICT friendly, but not really practical. A basic lighting desk can be moved from one side of the room to another in a few seconds, can be operated by anyone without an computer knowledge at all, and with a pen and paper, is a damn reliable device. My guess is the ICT people are upgrading their machines, and have surplus PCs available that the drama teacher in ignorance, is being pressured to use!

 

If your school have 5 theatres then I'm guessing you also do BTECs? If so - it's worth bearing in mind that the skills taught are designed to prepare learners for work in the real world, using real world techniques, and real world equipment.

 

Do ICT teach people to use notepad instead of Word? - of course not, because when people use grown up computers, they use the right tool for the job. Going PC at entry lighting level is not in any way transferable skills - but I guess the lights will come on. We could also suggest using alternatives to photoshop, autocad and no doubt others - maybe the teacher will get the point if you explain.

[AndrewR]

Paul... I both agree and disagree with you.

 

Yes, at the lower skill levels using simple dedicated desks makes much more sense for the reasons you mention.

 

But! At betec level... If you are looking at providing the best training possible for your students then surely you should be looking to have a selection of desks...

Maybe not a 'strand' desk with the current uncertanty over that mess... But certainly an Avo of some sort, an ETC desk (not congo, thats Avab and quite different) and something in the Hog field.

Ok, Avo and ETC don't do a PC version, but Hog2pc and MagicQ both offer a very affordable (well, Hog2pc is much less affordable than MagicQ) way to offer students exposure to modern moving light consoles. Even if they don't go on to use the same desks at least they will have had a chance to get to grips with that type of tracking/programmer desk.

 

And when I'm advocating PC control, I'm talking about using the contol wings!