Avo Pearl and similar - multiple shows

[pscandrett]

Hi

 

I use a Pearl and for any one given show it's fantastic; I typically do gigs with a dozen movers and perhaps 18-48 channels of dimming plus DMX FX (smoke, haze etc) - just to give you an idea of what I use it for. However, we do a range of gigs from a setup based on a standard rig, perhaps weekly/fortnightly, interspersed with a load of one-offs ranging from the simple to the more complicated which I don't need to save.

 

The rolacue is indispensable and very handy - and I'm getting better at arranging cues etc on it each gig. However, I'd like to ask some advice from seasoned Pearl (and other Avo console) users - and that is... saving and restoring a show to/from disk isn't a problem, but how do /you/ deal with the rolacues? After a show I have loads of things on LX tape on there; although I have discovered that Avo publish the roller template as a pdf I can't see any better way of 'loading' a show's written form onto the rolacue aside from... well, writing it on there again. I think I could possibly print the pdf on A3 and stick it on but I don't want to risk it coming undone and peeling off inside the desk during a show leaving myself working blind! (Don't know how often this might happen, but it crossed my mind...)

 

The catalyst for asking is that today I had a rehearsal/prog session for a gig on Saturday, but tomorrow I've got another gig (which has a completely different setup). On this occasion I've opted for yellow tape for Saturday's gig which I saved this afternoon; I've then stuck white over it and tomorrow will use that on the white tape. Come tomorrow night/Saturday morning, I'll remove the white tape and reload the other show.

 

It's crossed my mind before and this sort of 'how do individual board ops use the desk' question is one that I'm not sure there's a good place to learn about really, apart from places like this; even at Avo they teach you one way of doing things - which is great for learning, but as I move from 'beginner' to 'advanced' I find myself doing things my own way and picking up things from others.

 

So, in short, my question is: Is there any best practice for restoring the handwritten stuff to the roller on Avo desks? Does my question even make sense?!

 

If this thread spins off a little, then I'd appreciate any other Pearl usage tips anyone might have. I coudn't see a thread existing about this sort of thing but if it does exist, mods, please merge it.

 

Ta :-)

[andylights]

As a P2004 owner and freelancer - where I may be using someone else's desk, this is just one of those things that you adapt to suit your own needs. Personally, I have never used the .pdf roller sheet, but I guess you could secure it in several places with double sided sticky tape...(here's one I made earlier etc).

 

One thing I do use occasionally is a .jpg technical drawing of the front panel, this gives enough space to write up the sheet in the same manner you would write an audio desk sheet, I also sometimes use a grid that shows all Playbacks, facets ,roller pages and groups.

 

But the long and the short of it is, there's is no real way of avoiding the need to place and replace tape and then write on it. Like most people I use white PVC to markup the patch, palettes, faders and playbacks, but I prefer to use masking tape on the roller - PVC stretches.

 

It's up to you how you log the information. Obviously using the legend function means you can store everything with the show file (so long as you have the monitor to read it back).

 

Using a consistent playback/facet arrangement is good practice ie. if you always have spot dimmers on PB1A and all facets above that are related to spot dimmers; wash dimmers on PB2A etc...makes moving from one to another (and back again) easier.

 

How about keeping something with the desk (under the console, in the flightcase), that you can keep the roller tape on like a plastic folder? Your own idea of different colours could be useful - but you're really only limited to white, yellow and grey (or black with a silver pen - but the noise department may start on you - just because they need double width gaffer and a two inch permanent marker so they can graph' their desk, does not make 'em 'ard.

 

HTH

 

Regards,

 

Andy

 

 

ps is it only me that indicates House Lights with a little house icon (with smoke coming out the chimney) ?

[niclights]

ps is it only me that indicates House Lights with a little house icon (with smoke coming out the chimney) ?

 

Quite possibly. I think most peoples sharpies aren't sharp enough for the detail! You should copyright it just in case...

 

 

As Andy says PVC is pretty much the way everyone goes.

 

Before Avo published the pdf I designed one for CorelDraw. I have yet to actually use it - just find myself too busy for this sort of luxury neatness, but many people requested it so you're not alone in your quest. My intention was to print to A3 acetate (rather than paper) for a longer-lasting product. Attachment method would be to stick across full width with wide, clear tape, roll around, overlap and repeat at other end. The use of acetate and clear tape permits the overlap and makes secure. It also makes it re-useable, especially if you reverse-print so that the legend is on the inner side when wrapped.

 

A trick for legending the remainder of the desk is magnetic strips like the one down the attribute buttons on many 2000 models. Wrap PVC around these and everyone's a winner!

 

As an aside one of the intentions of future Expert builds is for an clear way to display stored PB legends on the VDU for ease of copying to the rollers.

[AndyJones]

I use white pvc, then use the flat head of my Leatherman to lift up the edge of the pvc tape onto an acetate sheet , onto which I can then mark the pages, and name of show. So that when it comes to it, it's simply a case of swapping the tape over, make sure to get the plain acetate, as apposed to the stuff you can print on.

 

HTH

 

AndyJones

[johnhuson]

Not really a huge amount of use to you but, I used to have some magnetic write on strips which worked well, not sure where they have gone or where they came from! If I need to keep hold of my desk marking (not very often) I generally carefully peel of the PVC and stick it on something like a plastic folder. This does of course have a limit to how many times you can stick and un-stick it though!

[danjshelton]

Althought not strictly speaking what your after, there is always the electronic legending that the pearl 2004 has, if you use a VDU with the desk that is! Although this would mean a lot more work to type in the names of the stuff you want and I agree isn't as user friendly, but it is an option, certainly for the playbacks and the palettes.

 

Dan

[pscandrett]

Thanks to all for suggestions.

 

Another, related question, then... and one to which I expect the answer is 'use the monitor', how does one keep track of three pages of rollercues? Are the options either a) very tidy/small handwriting or b) a monitor?

[J Pearce]

The ways I've seen before are:

 

For busking have the same things but slightly altered every page

Several colours of tape on the roller

Several colours of pen on the roller

Use tiny writing

 

If you were using the roller in a cue stack-esque way (ie one page per band or per act) you could relabel using the Avo template between acts.

[andylights]

I think you would really have to be going some to use three full roller pages - especially in a (mainly) busking environment. I only use two and the second page is only variations of page one, to give more convenient access should it be required. I usually keep spots separated on two PB's - US and DS (and the same with washes), on Roller Page 2 I might have all spots on one PB, leaving the second PB free for something else. I don't have to worry about marking up the changes for Page 2 because it's simple enough to remember (and it's all there on the monitor).

 

Another thing I do is to use Roller Page 3 as a store for bits and pieces. Because most of my work is live and dance/club based, I was finding that I was constantly having to re program generic chases (for the live stuff) and strobe stuff (multiple Atomics using grouped intensities and separate rates and durations) for the club work. Now I keep them all as a template on Page 3 and just Photocopy back to Page 1 and 2 as required. Not exactly ground breaking programming I know, but a useful time saver.

 

It sounds like from your posts that you don't use a monitor - I would heartily recommend it (and a small external keyboard for text entry). Useful for not only the PB Legends, but for all the enhanced information the desk gives you. Personally I always use a monitor with my desk (unless it's a tiny show), but as a freelancer you can't always guarantee there will be a monitor with a hired desk, so it's best not to get too reliant on it, after all the desk is fully functional without the monitor - it's just easier with.

 

Cheers,

 

Andy

[pscandrett]

Another thing I do is to use Roller Page 3 as a store for bits and pieces....Now I keep them all as a template on Page 3 and just Photocopy back to Page 1 and 2 as required. Not exactly ground breaking programming I know, but a useful time saver.

Ah, that's useful - thanks for the idea.

 

It sounds like from your posts that you don't use a monitor - I would heartily recommend it (and a small external keyboard for text entry). Useful for not only the PB Legends, but for all the enhanced information the desk gives you.

I don't often use one, no, but we do have one; I find it useful when patching, but haven't really found it much help otherwise. Unlike in a theatre context, where one needs to know what all the channels are doing at any one moment in time, in the gigs that I do I've not really found myself too bothered by what's on or what's not as I can see it from the way I've organised my fixture handles or playbacks. For a repetitive show then clearly it's good to label playbacks and similar rather than 'mem23' or 'chs6' or whatever the default may be but for one-offs it seems like more hassle than it's worth...? What are the other advantages?

 

Personally I always use a monitor with my desk (unless it's a tiny show), but as a freelancer you can't always guarantee there will be a monitor with a hired desk, so it's best not to get too reliant on it, after all the desk is fully functional without the monitor - it's just easier with.

Yes, thanks.

 

Can I ask a related question - you alluded to it when referring to your Roller Page 3 above...? I quite often use shapes (particularly the 'circle's, pan and tilt swings) on the macs (250 and 300s mainly, sometimes minimacs) that we use. However, I find myself reprogramming it each gig because although I know how to save it onto a playback (and indeed changing things from static/times and mode 2 etc) it only ever relates to a certain subset of macs that I may have chosen on that occasion. Considering that on a small gig I might want it applying to all the macs (inc 250/300s), and on a larger one I want to split them up (eg 250s on the truss, 300s on the sides, 250s on the stage), is there a way of making life easier here? This may well be where groups step in.

 

Ideally - at least for the way that I operate the desk at the moment, but I'm willing to change - I would like to be able to use the shapes I've recorded on a playback in a similar way to the focuses - that is, say, select a bunch of macs, apply the tilt saw to those and then select another bunch and apply a pan saw.

 

If I put the macs in groups - let's say the first 4 250s in group 1, another 6 in group 2 and the mac 300s in group 3 - and then in a skeleton show (saved setup, if you like) record the shapes relating to the recalled groups /rather/ than directly selected fixtures, will the shapes 'grow' or 'shrink' accordingly if I redefine the groups later on? Perhaps a show comes up and I've saved a pan saw for group 1 (originally only 4 macs) but I want that to apply to 10 macs; could I redefine group 1 as 10 macs and the pan saw would be applied to them all? Is that the best way of going?

 

It's just that sometimes, when I've programmed stuff - looking at it from the other direction, say a circle for all the macs - and then in the show I've got 2 macs doing something nice (eg projecting a gobo on something), I sometimes find that I want to apply the ('circle') shape to all the macs /except/ those 2. That's a doddle if I was applying a colour, or another gobo... but I can't apply another shape on the fly as the shape generator is a bit... untamed in a live environment if you've not saved stuff first!

 

Does all that make sense? Is what I'm asking possible? Or do you/others just use the shapes as per the gig you arrive at and redo it each time? Are there any other tips you can suggest for the 'skeleton show' please? (I already have a basic one that I use...)

 

Many thanks

[Jonny DMX]

It sounds a little bit complicated to me, is there any reason why you cannot just re-program for each show? You only seem to be using a handful of movers anyway so I wouldn't have thought it would take too long to refocus a few presets.

 

Plus every time you re-program a show from scratch you will be learning how to use the desk better each time and you will start to learn what sort of things work and which things you can do without. Personally I find if you spend time setting up your palettes properly you would be surprised how little you actually need on the roller. Rather than try to have a different look for every occasion try to have the core of a look on the roller then add the detail with the palettes. If you are fortunate enough to have a rehearsal you could try and record some of the states you like then, but on the whole I always found you learn more from busking live during the show.

 

P.s I also find it useful to have a palette with everything open on it, as a 'in case of emergency' button.... you know, for when the strobe just wont stop!!

[andylights]

Plus every time you re-program a show from scratch you will be learning how to use the desk better each time and you will start to learn what sort of things work and which things you can do without. Personally I find if you spend time setting up your palettes properly you would be surprised how little you actually need on the roller. Rather than try to have a different look for every occasion try to have the core of a look on the roller then add the detail with the palettes. If you are fortunate enough to have a rehearsal you could try and record some of the states you like then, but on the whole I always found you learn more from busking live during the show.

 

Couldn't have said it better!

 

Also, Groups are only used to grab a preset selection of fixtures, that may be a cumbersome button sequence. When you record a PB shape, it's only applied to the fixtures you had in the programmer at the tame you saved it. It's not that much of a problem to edit the PB via <include> . Actually that's one of the variations I use Roller page 2 for. On page 1 individual shapes for the US and DS heads, but on page 2 both US and DS are recorded together. So long as you make use the timed/static control, use creative pan and tilt palettes, you should find plenty of creative freedom. But try not to waste PB's, when you could program a palette. Don't forget they are not just for colour, gobo and p&t. Experiment with shutter rates, prisim in out and rotate, gobo's rotates, indexed gobo's.

 

Just remember to turn Palette Page On in user settings. And you will muck this up, if you don't already use it (ie don't try on an important show until you are confident) - you have to get use to jumping between palette pages, selecting fixtures etc. It's good fun and is what busking on Pearl is all about.

 

Enjoy....

 

PM me if you want any further details....

 

Regards,

 

Andy

[pscandrett]

Hi, sorry for the delay in replying.

It sounds a little bit complicated to me, is there any reason why you cannot just re-program for each show? You only seem to be using a handful of movers anyway so I wouldn't have thought it would take too long to refocus a few presets.

 

Plus every time you re-program a show from scratch you will be learning how to use the desk better each time and you will start to learn what sort of things work and which things you can do without.

Well, yes, that's what I do already - I've come on a lot when it comes to the operation of the desk but it's also great to get experiences from others! I don't like, however, just reprogramming the same thing each time, and I thought I might be able to make some shortcuts in saving the common stuff somewhere. The idea of using page 3 is a good one.

 

Don't forget they are not just for colour, gobo and p&t. Experiment with shutter rates, prisim in out and rotate, gobo's rotates, indexed gobo's.

Great, yeah, thanks; I do use them for gobo rotates, and have used them for prisms, but not shutter rates (I tend to stick them on playbacks). I'll try those on the pallettes/focuses - thanks for the tip. I do use the focus with positions - a tip I picked up on my Avo training in London - which is a really good idea.

 

Just remember to turn Palette Page On in user settings. And you will muck this up, if you don't already use it (ie don't try on an important show until you are confident)

I'm familiar with the option of palette page on, but I've never used it - jamming my utilities into one page has been all I've done thus far (swapping pages always struck me as being a faff!); thanks though, that gives me confidence to try that at some point.

 

you have to get use to jumping between palette pages, selecting fixtures etc. It's good fun and is what busking on Pearl is all about.

I already nip about a fair bit and when a gig comes off well, I'm really pleased and it gives me that buzz that you strive for. The lighting I do is a combination of busking and preset stuff - some of the bands I work with have express preferences (and indeed a couple of cues) for some tracks, so I have some of that programmed in; nevertheless, I have quite a lot of scope to learn and creatively do stuff myself and I just feel I want to take what I know further. Thanks very much for these tips - and I hope that if anyone else finds them useful or can add their ways of working to the thread they'll continue the conversation!

 

Ta