Monitor Desk and FOH Desk

[tom_the_LD]

Hi

 

In future shows at school I would like to have one desk for monitors and one desk to control the FOH mix. However I have never done this before! The desks are 2 spirit folio SXs'. How would I go about doing this? having everything going into the monitor desk then taking the main mix from this into a stereo channel on the FOH desk? although the trouble with this is that I can only have the same levels as on the monitor desk and can't adjust them (ie not have low kick on monitors and the high kick coming out in the FOH) or is there something else I can do where every channel is controlable from both desks? I hope you understand what I mean!!

 

 

Much help in advance

 

 

Tom

[niclights]

Normally you would split the signal at stage end so that all stage lines are doubled. One set goes to monitor desk and the other, usually via a multicore, goes to FOH.

 

Split can be active or passive. Normally this will be in the form of a stagebox to allow patching, but you can achieve this via Y-splits on the monitor desk or direct channel outs if it has this facility.

 

Outputs from sends on monitor desk go to monitor amps/wedges, usually via graphics (or graphics are inserted on the sends).

 

L&R output from FOH goes direct to PA (again, usually via graphics to controller)

[paulears]

The only real snag with the folios, when pressed into service like this is that some are a little short on auxes in the first place, so will you be any better off, control wise? The good thing is that you can eq specifically for your monitors. The channel fader on the one used for monitors isn't really that handy as the individual mixes have to be done on the quite small aux pots, which are not the easiest to find. Depending on the exact folio, I would try to find some way of marking the pots - masking tape on the top, then highlighter pen makes them stand out better in rows.

[tom_the_LD]

Thanks for the help.

 

niclights - you mention splitting the signal at the stage end. How would I do this, just use Y splits?? Paul I see what you mean, the thing that I was planning on doing was the auxes on the monitor desk go to stage and the auxes on the FOH go to band and dressing room (another thing about using 2 desks is I get double the amount of aux sends)

 

As I mentioed thanks for all of your feedback - I hope to hear some more helpful suggestions :D

[niclights]

Yes. Y-splits is the cheapest if there are no direct channel outs and will be fine for your application.

 

More expensive way is to build a box with ins and two sets of outs but only really worth it for pro application when you have 40+ channels and need to patch (swapping connectors on consoles is confusing and will add unnecessary wear to the more valuable equipment)

 

Most expensive way is to use racks of active (powered) isolator/splitters. This is usually simply too costly and over the top but will be found in broadcast.

[MarkPAman]

You're definitely going along the right lines here. Although the desks you have are not what most of us would choose as a monitor desk, I think you will be improving the system, by taking this route.

Y-splits will work though may lead to "spaghetti". It is more usual to have a stage box which has two multicores attached, or XLR outputs in parallel with the inputs.

 

Edit - Too slow!

[tom_the_LD]

Well thanks for your help guys, I really appreciate it! niclights on the SX there are direct outs for the first 8 chanels but if I come out of these I THINK (correct if I am wrong) only takes the level out which is set on the fader if you know what I mean!!

[J Pearce]

It's changeable.

On the left of the desk about fader level, there is a little black dome, lift it up and there is a slider. Theres a legend on the desk to tell you which way is pre-fader and which is post-fader. It's easy to move the slider with a pen or small screwdriver.

[Pete Alcock]

Hi Tom,

 

Respect to Niclites and JP, but personally I wouldn't take the feed to the front of house desk from the direct out's of the monitor desk - simply because any gain adjustments the monitor guy makes is going to affect the FOH mix. Sure you can tell him not to touch the top row of knobs, but it's a disaster waiting to happen.

 

The best way is to make up some Y leads, or simple parallel splits and use these to feed both desks from the mics. (Make sure if you're using phantom power that only one desk has phantom swtched on, and be careful about plugging and unplugging mics when either mons or main speakers are on). This thread from a few days ago has some interesting takes on how to achieve Y splits: Link to thread on Y Splits.

 

If you have a stage box, and you reckon the need for monitors is something that'll be regular, you could drill a hole in it and wire in a 12 channel multicore as a permanent monitor split. Just a thought.

 

Pete.

[J Pearce]

I wasn't recommending it. I was just pointing out that the Folio SX's direct outs can be pre or post, and how to change them.

 

Definitely, if the money is there, do proper splits!

[tom_the_LD]

I was thinking the same Pete, with regards to dir out. We have a stage box - very similar to if not the same as this one off the top of my head. What do you mean by drilling a hole in and wiring in?

 

Cheers

[johnhuson]

Essentially you need another tail coming out of it, exactly as it already is, just with a shorter length of cable (length dependant on how far you want the stage box from your monitor desk). Just need to solder the outputs in parrallel to your current ones. For added flexibility you might want to consider a multipin connector on the box so you can detach the monitor tail for occasions when it's not needed.

[MarkPAman]

OK, how are you with a soldering iron?

 

What you need to do is get a piece of 12 channel multicore, long enough to reach from the stage box to the monitor desk. At the desk end you need to connect 12 male XLRs. The other end needs to go through a hole in the box and connect to the 12 inputs. It would be best to use some sort of gland where the cable goes through the box.

A neater, but more expensive (and complicated to make) alternative is to fit a multipin connector to the box, with a matching one on your short multicore.

 

Edit Too slow again!!

 

Most expensive way is to use racks of active (powered) isolator/splitters. This is usually simply too costly and over the top but will be found in broadcast.

 

OT a bit, but I wish there was an "Ultrasplit-Pro" out there at a decent price! Now who would make that....

[mal421]

I may be wide of the mark here but :-

What if you are using phantom power ? Surely one will need some form of isolatiion to stop the phantom power from one desk trying to to get into the inputs of the other desk ? e.g a 1:1 transformer .

[johnhuson]

It would be a good idea, however an agreement between the monitor engineer and the FOH engineer prior to soundcheck is generally sufficent to avoid this.