School Show:- intercoms on the cheap

[HurricaneMatt]

Hey,

 

We're running a school show and need an intercom system set up for the technical team.

The lighting desk, sound desk, backstage manager and people on the other lighting balcony need to be the ones joined.

 

(yes our school is old and stupid by having two balconies, on either side of the hall that can only be accessed by going down to floor level...running down the corrider behind the stage...and up the other side...)

 

We havn't got a large budget at all and we'd prefer to buy rather than hire because of future use of them.

 

Would buying 4 walkie talkies and getting 4 cheap headsets work alright?

 

Thanks

Matt

[Jaster]

Yes, I have done many shows like that in the past. The only thing is that we found that it is easier to give lighting and sound their own scripts and let them get on with it as having someone calling a show over a radio net is stressful and tiring, and you can't always here them properly which causes problems. We ended up just using the radios when things went wrong or to keep in touch generally, rather than using them to shout essential cues at each other.

 

Then again that may be all you need?

 

 

EDIT: Oh, and for headsets we used standard boom mics for the desk ops but we ended up giving people close to or behind the stage throat mics, which were expensive but meant they could be heard and didn't have to talk too loudly.

[Ynot]

Would buying 4 walkie talkies and getting 4 cheap headsets work alright?

Honestly?

No.

 

Using radios for specific purposes like contacting a roving tech is fine, but even that has it's limitations.

Headsets like the pretty much industry standard Techpro/Canford talback system is going to work FAR better than walkie-talkies.

 

Radios can only have one person speaking at any time, which leads to potential confusion if two or more try to speak over one another - that way, no-one gets the message, and with stage cues that's a biggie.

 

And if you've ever tried using a radio in a noisy environment (read backstage whilst a loud audio track or dance number is being played) then you'll see that the receiver, even if in a quiet room, will get a rather distorted message!

 

Best option? If the school can't afford to invest in a permanent install, then hire some headsets as and when neded - they aren't that expensive if you only do occasional shows.

 

EDIT: Oh - and a suggestion - please make your topic titles a bit more obvious, as it helps. You now have two topics with virtually the same title!!

[HurricaneMatt]

okay - thanks

 

apologises for the titles

[Jaster]

Radios can only have one person speaking at any time, which leads to potential confusion if two or more try to speak over one another - that way, no-one gets the message, and with stage cues that's a biggie.

Hence we did not use them for essential stuff like calling cues

 

And if you've ever tried using a radio in a noisy environment (read backstage whilst a loud audio track or dance number is being played) then you'll see that the receiver, even if in a quiet room, will get a rather distorted message!

Hence we got throat mics = problem solved

 

 

Not trying to argue with you but simply saying that if in a hurry or on a budget it can be done to an extent.

[gareth]

Have a look at the ASL intercom range that AC Lighting distribute - it's pretty good quality but the prices are very reasonable, and it all connects using bog-standard 3-pin XLR mic cables. From their 'basic' range, you could equip yourselves with a PSU, four outstations and four headsets for a little over £800, which isn't bad at all (but don't forget to add the cost of cables - you don't specify distances, so it's impossible to hazard a guess at the cost). Wired comms are much more reliable than radio based systems, and far more appropriate for a theatrical talkback application.

 

 

Mods : any chance of a topic title edit to make it less vague than it is at the moment?

[Andrew C]

Mods : any chance of a topic title edit to make it less vague than it is at the moment?

Yep.

 

And to third the view, go wired. MUCH more reliable for show use, although having 2 ways can be a huge boon during rigging/plotting etc.

 

All comes down to money...

[mac.calder]

If worst comes to worst, distribute scripts, and a few 2-ways. It will work provided you set the ground rules at the beginning for use - ie apart from the stage manager, the only time the radios should be used is if something happens.

 

If you want to cue your techs, maybe it would be worth while building a set of cue lights - maybe your science teacher or someone would be willing.

[Pete]

Could you buy the base station and the cable,and hire in packs and headsets?Install the cable,otherwise someone will steal it to use on stage!

[jack s/lfx]

Hi Matt

 

I'm currently in a similar situation- Our school are wanting a decent and reliable comms system on the cheap, and really there's nothing on the market. We were quoted £1500 for a decent comms system, presumably Canford, which is way over budget, but I didn't get all the details of that.

 

We've tried using radios before but it's pretty useless, they aren't two way (talk and listen at same time) and are just unreliable.

 

What I am looking into at the moment is building my own using telephones. (You can get headset telephones if needed.) I'm in the middle of building a prototype, but apparently you can wire them up in parallel using two cores, a 9 volt power supply and a resistor. This then acts as an open circuit with anyone who has lifted the handset off the switch.

 

If I get this working I am going to build a signaling system and run it over 8 core cat 5 cable.

 

Headset telephones can be expensive, but they are cheaper than Canford kit. Possibilities are big too with the capability of incorporating wireless headsets and the like.

 

Hope this helps

Jack

[Ben Langfeld]

To be honest, hire of Canford TecPro systems really isn't expensive. Last time I hired a set I asked for a PSU, 4 belt-packs and 4 single muff headsets. This came to about £25 for the day's hire, and I actually received 8 beltpacks and headsets. I was told that this was just a standard case and even if you request less than 8, they send out 8 anyway. I'll remember that next time and just ask for 2 . The thing is, I later discovered that our local City Learning Centre has a load of beltpacks and a fair few power supplies knocking around. I got the same kit again, which had only ever been used on about 10 events by one of my friends at another school in the same town. Apparently no-one else uses them because they don't know they're there! Would never have believed that :). That's Labour all over really. Stock a CLC with a few hundred grand's worth of stuff but don't tell anyone it's there to be used! *Dons flame suit*. Apologies for going off topic!

[pritch]

What I am looking into at the moment is building my own using telephones. (You can get headset telephones if needed.) I'm in the middle of building a prototype, but apparently you can wire them up in parallel using two cores, a 9 volt power supply and a resistor. This then acts as an open circuit with anyone who has lifted the handset off the switch.

 

Let us know how you get on; I'm interested in a cheap talkback system for my venue, but ComClone looks like too much work. In theory using phones like you've described should work and coincidentally I was thinking it over myself when I read your post.

 

I'm thinking that 9V is a little on the low side given that line voltage is 37.5V (Actually, I think BT is slightly higher - 40V maybe?) so you may need to up it a bit, and that sort of voltage would rule out using a 'brick' power supply.

 

You're certainly right about only needing two cores. Pins 2 and 5 on the phone need to be connected to each wire. Everything else can be left out, especially 3 which will cause the handsets to ring, which won't be good.

 

Also of possible interest would be a cheap PBX that offers conference calling; this would certainly save you having to figure out a signalling system yourself. Most of them only offer three-way calling though but if you're only doing shows with a stage manager, LX and sound then that would be fine, but you'd run into problems beyond that. There are several such items on ebay right now.

[Pete McCrea]

I hire comms for £5/day ex VAT for the headset and beltpack. Base Station about £15. So about £150 for a week. Assuming 1 show a year at that price, it would take about 10 years to recoupe the cost of buying. Based on the post above staing £1500 for a system.

 

Try SFL in reading for a price.

[Modge]

I don't know how amenable your school would be to the idea, but if the PBX is good enough (and it's doing a whole school, so it should be pretty decent I would have thought) then just get extra phone points put in all over the place and conference call it up. I know the Nortel phones common in offices all have a headset socket because I've done the office geek thing in an office with a Nortel system.

[bruce]

... just get extra phone points put in all over the place

 

Well, the organisation I work for charges 350 pounds for installation of a line and handset, plus a recurrent cost of 25 pounds per annum. So for me (and I suspect most corporate/government/education sites) it's not exactly a budget option.

 

Has anyone actually tried a "comclone"?