School Shows

[HurricaneMatt]

Hey,

 

I was asked to research pyro effects that could be used for my school's annual dance show that runs over three nights.

I started looking on the LeMaitre website at 4oz stage gerbs and using a few in a 3 way array plate but as I've never seem them in action before I don't know what would be suitable. We will need the same effect each night so we didn't want to be buying something that would cost a bomb to re-use.

 

It's an indoor hall with a large stage with a pit/well at the front. The audience is situated at the edge of the pit/well which is approx 5 metres in width and the seating is tiered. So I was thinking about having something in the pit/well.

 

Any suggestions on products/ideas that might be suitable?

 

Thanks

Matt

[Brian]

4oz gerbs run at about £12 each. They run for about 40 seconds, go 20 feet in the air and produce a mountain of some of the nastiest smoke that pyro produces.

 

Give us a bit more of a clue as to what you want to achieve and I'm sure we'll be able to suggest something for the competent over-18 who'll be firing the show to use.

[HurricaneMatt]

Cheers

 

Well we want to end each night 'with a bang' (or flash) so ANY type of pyro that could be used inside...that didn't go extremly wide with a hot fallout as I don't think the people at the front in the audience would be too happy! A hot fallout would be fine though as long as it didn't exceed 5 metres. The height doesnt really matter as the hall's got a very tall ceiling.

 

So something reasonably big, but nothing mega big that supports a large price tag.

 

And yes I'd be getting the school's media technician to organise it/set them off

[Tomo]

The height doesnt really matter as the hall's got a very tall ceiling.

How high, exactly?

 

It does matter, as some effects go rather high!

[Ynot]

Cheers

 

Well we want to end each night 'with a bang' (or flash)

 

And yes I'd be getting the school's media technician to organise it/set them off

I'm going to echo Brian's cautionary words and ask whether the media tech has had experience running pyro effects?

If not, then I suggest that if the school (or you on their behalf) is set on using pyro, then he/she needs to get onto a recognised pyro course FIRST, as there are many safety issues involved. This isn't quite a legal requirement, BUT if the s**t hits the fan, (or the pyro hits a person) then the use of untrained inexperienced pyro tech's could well be a cause for litigation against the school.

[HurricaneMatt]

ah okay

 

20ft would probz be the maximum

 

also...any idea where pyro training can be done?

 

 

 

 

EDIT - ignore the bit bout training - just seen the pinned topic

 

I've just been looking at the training times and there doesnt seem to be any before our show - 19th April

 

Does anyone know any companies that would come in and fire them off etc for us?

 

Cheers

[Firemonkey]

Does anyone know any companies that would come in and fire them off etc for us?

Hi!

We would be pleased to cover you by arranging an operator / firing system / pyro / risk assessment / insurance or whatever level of service you require, not a cheap option but we will be pleased to help with suggestions for material and safe operation using your operator or ours, this could involve having one of our operators to brief your technician and work along side him/her for a rehearsal. Other companies may also offer this assistance so you may be able to get some alternative costings.

Risk and use are best established with a test viewed by all performers and staff connected to the show so that everyone knows what to expect and why the precautions are in place. So allow for test and rehearsal firings as well.

Mik. Prometheus Fire / Amabilino Pyro Displays.

 

p.s. I've been in the business 25yrs now and never done a pyro course, it all comes down to risk assessment, and common sense.

If all this is in place with safe operating practice then a pyro course would be sensible and useful to your operator and for the schools peace of mind but not essential.

Many schools, to say nothing of am-dram, bands, discos etc. operate pyro using only guidance from the suppliers and common sense. Safe use is best established by tests.

For alternatives to Le Maitre at reasonable costs try Wells, (available from Pyro-Junkies), who make a really good range of effects mostly with 3mtr safety and less smoke and debris than l.m. I generally use Wells or Pyro-Pak (American, available from Pyrovision), because of reliability, quality of effect, and clean-ish burn.

you can certainly achieve what you want without using 4oz gerbs which are as stated above very messy and smokey for indoor use, mainly arena or giant hall spaces.

[kje-kev1459]

how about some gas flames or fire effect

[Ynot]

how about some gas flames or fire effect

Hmmm...

 

In a school with NO prior experience of pyro???

 

I somehow think this is stretching the options a little!

[Colin]

I have done pyro a few times again with only a fairly brief introduction and nothing formal.

 

When planning an effect I normally go through a couple of steps:

 

Consider where the audience and cast are going to be and their distance from any effect. Not just when the effect goes off but any time up until it is fired. Also any set or lighting etc that are in a reasonable range.

 

Log onto the Le maitre web site: www.lemaitreltd.com and check out their videos of the various effects to see what it will look like and try to choose something that fits. Then check out the technical spec of the pyro (also available on the site) this should give you a list of the safe distances, generally they are a little OTT but I certainly wouldn't completely ignore them.

 

Having decided on the pyro you would like to use talk to your supplier, often they will be able to advise you on the safe handling and reliable set-up of any pyro and if you ask nicely possibly give you a demo.

 

Now its risk assessment time sure there is a lot written about this elsewhere so I wont go into detail. After we have risk assessed something like this we need to inform our insurers and send them a risk assessment out of the 10 or so times I have done it we have only needed to pay a premium for it once however it being an insurance company it had nothing to do with the risk of the pyro location or the type used but due to that children were in the building so it may apply here.

 

Choose a firing position, make sure that you can see all the pyro that could be in harms way, variations on this may include spotters ideally with a dead mans switch each (device put in circuit to ensure that a button is being held down at the time of firing or it will not take place) or if this is not possible a clear line of communications with them.

 

When it comes to setting up any pyro take a final look around make sure you haven't decided to rig that extra drape or an extra couple of lights. Also make sure anything ground based is not going to get tripped over or kicked as happened one memerable time (before anyone asks it was not detonated)

 

Next I would do a test fire of each individual effect. The first test fire would be with the cast watching so they know what they are looking out for (and ideally don't scream). Next I would run a scene yelling BANG! at the appropriate point just to make sure it is correct and people are in the right position then finally with the full test fire then you should be set and ready to go (if you have the budget the more rehersals with the pyro the better - it will stop the cast from looking so nervous).

 

After denotation we remove the pods and place them in water for a day or so then dispose of them (usually in a bin however there maybe some better way of doing so). Also have a think about what you would do if detonation failed and ways of making it safe.

 

As far as choosing pyro is concerned:

I quite like prostage 2 because it is relatively cheap and it uses bell wire which is easy to extend and hide as needs be.

 

I have a preference towards gerbs recently, you get a lot of ahhhhhhh for you money with a couple of dets thrown in to add a BANG!! Realistically the prostage 2 stage gerbs only go to about 2/3 of their stated height ie. 12ft looks more like 9 etc. and a similar rule on timing as it fades to a smaller set of sparks, consider these more as a safety margin as some sparks to go above 9ft.

 

There are some other funky effects such as mines but have a look through their web site and see what suits.

 

But as always I am not qualified to say this is the safest way to do something probaly the best bet is to talk to the people suppiling you with pyro.

[Ynot]

Colin, hi.

Some quite sensible and practical feedback.

How did you come by this methodolgy? Were you trained on-site by an experienced pyro tech, or was it hit & miss? Or did you pick it up from books etc?

 

However, as your profile states you are a student, can I check that you're over 18 and a college type student, because if you're UNDER 18, you may find yourself on a sticky wicket if you yourself take any responsibility for the effects.

 

 

One other thing that bemused me, though was

After denotation we remove the pods and place them in water for a day or so then dispose of them (usually in a bin however there maybe some better way of doing so).

There is really no need for this.

Disposal in an appropriate refuse container is fine without any dampening down.

[Colin]

Hello,

 

I am a university student who is 21.

 

The methodology has been built up over a couple of years in association with our local stockist which gave us some basic training in the handling and detonation but most of it has come from our risk assessment process. The risk assessments and methodology has been reviewed by our student's union staff then later the university staff, we later on a case by case basis complete a risk assessment for the particular effect where it is being used and what pre cautions should be taken. Finally the insurers approve the final assessment and we are set to go.

 

One other thing that bemused me, though was

After denotation we remove the pods and place them in water for a day or so then dispose of them (usually in a bin however there maybe some better way of doing so).

There is really no need for this.

Disposal in an appropriate refuse container is fine without any dampening down.

 

I believe that this came from the principle that if any device doesn't go off then the official recommendation is to first attempt a re-fire and if it still fails then to soak it for 24 hours. However yes it does seem a little excessive when it has properly detonated and FYI pyro left in water for a couple of days is not a pretty sight

[pyromonkey]

sorry for pickyness! but I believe the word you are looking for is "ignited" not detonated. I believe there is a difference!

[Ynot]

I am a university student who is 21.

fair enough.

And I see you've updated your profile. :)

The methodology has been built up over a couple of years in association with our local stockist which gave us some basic training in the handling and detonation but most of it has come from our risk assessment process. The risk assessments and methodology has been reviewed by our student's union staff then later the university staff, we later on a case by case basis complete a risk assessment for the particular effect where it is being used and what pre cautions should be taken. Finally the insurers approve the final assessment and we are set to go.

Again, fair enough - sounds like a solid approach. Well done.

One other thing that bemused me, though was

After denotation we remove the pods and place them in water for a day or so then dispose of them (usually in a bin however there maybe some better way of doing so).

There is really no need for this.

Disposal in an appropriate refuse container is fine without any dampening down.

I believe that this came from the principle that if any device doesn't go off then the official recommendation is to first attempt a re-fire and if it still fails then to soak it for 24 hours. However yes it does seem a little excessive when it has properly detonated and FYI pyro left in water for a couple of days is not a pretty sight ;)

I remain bemused!

Theatrical pyro isn't like domestic or commercial fireworks.

They either fire or they don't. I've not come across any effects that need to be treated in the way that non-firing fireworks do, and that's no surprise - else how would you manage a failure during a show? You can't expect the whole cast to avoid a firing pod!

 

And as I say, soaking them for ANY length of time is not necessary for the same reasons.

Yes - dispose of any failed firing properly, but there's no need for the water treatment.

[JimWebber]

....

And as I say, soaking them for ANY length of time is not necessary for the same reasons.

Yes - dispose of any failed firing properly, but there's no need for the water treatment.

 

Hello!

 

What is the recommended wayto dispose of a failed firing? I was always under the impression that they should be soaked.

 

Jim