Microphone selection

[Johnno]

I'm adding to our school's handheld, wired mic selection and would appreciate your opinions.

 

We have 2x SM58, 1x PG58, and 2x PG81.

 

I'm thinking of getting 2x SM58, 4x SM57, and 2x KM105

 

Main uses will be for singers of average ability and speechifying teachers. That number of those mics would allow a lead singer and backing group, or a small conference.

 

Ruggedness is an advantage.

 

Comment of one boy on spotting an SM58: "Wow! You've got one of those £100 mics!" £60 actually - I like them without switches.

 

Merry Christmas.

[minty]

Hi Johno,

The 58's seem logical enough, although if your budget will allow I'd personally be inclined to go with the beta58. Paticularly if you have some weaker singers to deal with. You might find you can push them a little bit further without feedback, and the low end response might be flattering on male voices.

The 57's well you say it's for vocal work, so why not just stick to 58's (you might get a better price by getting more)

 

Hope that helps in some way.

 

Martin.

 

Oh an never give a singer a mic with a switch!

[Dmills]

For a school environment, I would drop the KM(I asume S?)105s and get half a dozen or so E845, assuming you have the channels available, will 6 decent mikes not buy you more then 2 stellar ones?

The KMS105 is a better mic, but does the rest of your rig really live up to that standard, and do you really want to be putting that much expense in a small handheld package in front of a typical school user?

 

I would also note that the KMS 105 requires phantom, not normally a problem, but you do see some weird gear in schools sometimes. Finally the KMS105 is hypercardioid and as such requires that the vocalist address the thing on axis, not a problem with professionals, but.....

 

Possibly adding a few PCC160 or similar for conference and float use would be an idea, but you know your market.

SM57/8 are IMHO a necessary evil, but everyone knows what they sound like and you will get asked for them, so having a handful is never a bad thing.

 

Regards, Dan.

[Bobbsy]

Well, the first thing I have to ask is: when you say KM105, do you mean a Neumann KMS 105?

 

If so, you're talking about one of my favourite mics: smooth and sweet sounding on a wide range of voices and several cuts above things like the SM58. However, it also has a price tag to match, probably £350-400 street. With the best will in the world, I'm not sure I'd recommend a mic of this expense for a school application.

 

As for your other choices, if ruggedness is your main criteria then the SM58 is a good choice...the can take a lot of abuse. They're not the best sounding mic around (a mid range presence peak can be perceived as harsh sometimes) but they're very common and everyone knows how to use them.

 

Similarly, the SM57 is a fairly versatile mic, useful both for voice and a range of instruments. Again, not the greatest mic, but a reliable workhorse.

 

If you want to explore mics other than the SM58, I'd suggest you have a listen to the Audix OM5/OM6. It should be available in a similar price bracket to the SM58 but has a smoother sound and can handle soft voices better, not getting you to feedback as soon as the Shure.

 

Assuming (perhaps very incorrectly) that you mentioned the KMS105 because you want a couple of condensor mics (and assuming you have a source of phantom power) you might look at the SE Electronics SE1A. A couple of these are useful for "general" pickup purposes in some of your applications where the mic has to be farther from the source. The price is very reasonable, again not far off an SM58.

 

Finally, I know you meant it to be light hearted, but your comment about switches leads me to comment that no mic used on a stage should EVER have a switch. Performers invariably get it wrong...and that's what the sound man is for.

 

Bob

[MarkPAman]

Performers invariably get it wrong...and that's what the sound man is for.

 

Speak for yourself Bob, I'm there to get it right! :D

 

I can't really add much to any of the previous posts, except to add that the grill of the SM57 will break if dropped, which will happen sooner or later.

[StevieR]

If its for vocal use then I will heartily recommend the Sennheiser e865 which is absolutely lovely and yet still rugged - as are the rest of the Evo range. A great alternative to the Shure mics for less expense in general.

 

You may also want to have a look at a couple of the microflex range ( or equivalents) which are much more suited to presentations/conferences where the presenter is likely to be slightly further from the microphone.

 

Steve

[daveh]

If its for vocal use then I will heartily recommend the Sennheiser e865 which is absolutely lovely and yet still rugged - as are the rest of the Evo range. A great alternative to the Shure mics for less expense in general.

 

You may also want to have a look at a couple of the microflex range ( or equivalents) which are much more suited to presentations/conferences where the presenter is likely to be slightly further from the microphone.

 

Steve

I've been using the e865 on vox for a couple of months now & second steves recommendation

[Animal]

I'm adding to our school's handheld, wired mic selection and would appreciate your opinions.

 

We have 2x SM58, 1x PG58, and 2x PG81.

 

I'm thinking of getting 2x SM58, 4x SM57, and 2x KM105

 

Main uses will be for singers of average ability and speechifying teachers. That number of those mics would allow a lead singer and backing group, or a small conference.

 

Ruggedness is an advantage.

 

Comment of one boy on spotting an SM58: "Wow! You've got one of those £100 mics!" £60 actually - I like them without switches.

 

Merry Christmas.

 

Hi Johnno,

 

I would seriously consider the sennheiser E935's or E945's deppending on what polar pattern you need. I'd take the Sennheiser 800 series stuff over an SM58. The KMS105 is one of my favourite mics also but the 900 series mics are very close and a lot cheaper. The SM57's are a great workhorse but I wouldn't use them for vocals. Audio Technicas are also overlooked at times. I think their value for money is incredible. I use them a lot for instrument micing.

[Johnno]

Thanks for your replies I'll look into the models you suggested.

 

Two further questions:

 

Is there any value in having a mic with a figure-of-eight response to mic a duet?

 

Which are the good physically small mics? (Small children look silly singing into "big" mics)

 

Regards,

John.

[CPlater1]

Personally I would get mics with a cardioid <sp?> or hyper-cardioid pick-up pattern, as nearly everyone knows how they think the mic should be used. Figure of 8 mics are ok for studio use with duets, but you have to be careful in setting them up to make sure the people are singing into the right part.

 

 

Generally when the mic gets smaller, you will be going more towards condensor or capacitor mics. This is because of the way the mics work. When mics get smaller, they generally become omnidirectional, and that may not be desirable in all situations.

 

 

Hope this makes sense

[StevieR]

Is there any value in having a mic with a figure-of-eight response to mic a duet?

 

No, these are really a studio domain microphone.

 

Which are the good physically small mics? (Small children look silly singing into "big" mics)

 

Perhaps you might want to look at some of the condensors with the nice slim extension rods - e.g. AKG Se300 + CK91 + Extension Tube. Often seen used with opera singer at concerts. This will push your costs up a fair bit though...

[Dayve]

Just my little say, I am also at school, I don't know that much about the mics mentioned on this thread except the shures but be careful how much you spend on a mic, and if you do go for high quality ones don't let everyone know. At my school (don't know if its the same for everyone) but mics tend to go walk about quite often and sometimes don't turn up for a few months (sometimes ever).

 

Also, try and get mics which are built to be beaten, as much as we try to at my school people do drop them, knock them over, trip over cables etc and ours do get battered a lot (again, might be different where you are).

 

Oh, and about the switches, I so agree that they shouldn't have them, we mainly have PG58s at our school which have switches, we got so fed up of people turning them off and on we eventually got some gaffa tape and put it all around the switch so it could not be turned off, and then gaffed them into the mic stands.

 

Edit: Have so say, PG58's are really sturdy, the ones at my school are constantly being dropped etc and they all still work. Also, SM58s are the same, we dont have any at school but I often take mine to school and its always going missing around the music dep and it comes back a bit worse for wear everytime but it always works just as well.

[paulears]

It's quite common for schools and colleges to only need mics that work, not have superb quality. Decent mikes, especially condensors are fragile beasts. Colleges that have recording studios normally have a small quantity of decent mics for the more advanced people to use, and loads of cheapies for the musicians to abuse. Quality mics also seem to have legs and walk. The reality is that with a budget PA, expensive mics are probably overkill - as the whole system improves, that is the time to invest in better mics. I had a few Senn cheapies and they stood the abuse pretty well - dented grills, scratches etc looked bad, but they kept on going and were quite cheap.

[Johnno]

... At my school (don't know if its the same for everyone) but mics tend to go walk about quite often and sometimes don't turn up for a few months (sometimes ever).

 

Also, try and get mics which are built to be beaten, as much as we try to at my school people do drop them, knock them over, trip over cables etc and ours do get battered a lot (again, might be different where you are).

 

Oh, and about the switches, I so agree that they shouldn't have them, we mainly have PG58s at our school which have switches, we got so fed up of people turning them off and on we eventually got some gaffa tape and put it all around the switch so it could not be turned off, and then gaffed them into the mic stands.

 

Thanks Davye.

 

We've had mics stolen before. I'm thinking of having our name and postcode properly engraved on all new mics. It won't stop them being nicked.

 

We seem to be OK for damage to gear - possibly just because we aren't doing many shows at present so most of it isn't getting used much.

 

I too tape switches. Most recently all eight radio mics got the treatment for the whole of the show.

 

 

It's quite common for schools and colleges to only need mics that work, not have superb quality....

...The reality is that with a budget PA, expensive mics are probably overkill - as the whole system improves, that is the time to invest in better mics.

 

Agreed. I've been told that there will be some money to spend in the New Year and have been asked to write a wish list for spending it. Top of the list is "More shows", followed by "Loudspeaker upgrade", and then "Wider range of mics". There is also "Retractable tiered seating", "Usable toilets" and "Eviction of the caretaker's stores from the understage area". These are more in the realms of fantasy and there mostly to highlight what I see as problems with the design of our hall and poor but understandable - there isn't anywhere else he can use - resource allocation. One can but hope! You've been in education, you know the score.

 

Seriously, the list of what I want changes daily as I come across new possibilities and re-prioritise others. I don't even know how much money I'm being offered but I'm not "wish spending" less than £2500. That's what I wish-spent last time and I got most of it. If nothing else I'll end up with a fistful of SM57/58s (and a lectern mic) and be quite happy with them.

 

However, if I can sort out the speakers and improve the mics this year then next time I get offered money all I'll need is a better amp. I can't get that this year as we got a new one three years ago and still have two older ones that work and the governor that I speak to most knows it (though some of the speakers I'm looking at are active types which is an interesting cheat!). So a few decent mics makes some sense even if they won't get used very often unless we step-up the quantity and variety of our productions, something I want to see happen.

 

Regards,

John

[colebrooke]

Hiya,

My 10 pence worth is try a few Beyerdynamic Opus 39. I've not used them myself, but clocked the BBC using a bunch of them on Jools Holland's new years eve Hogmanay. Sounded great. (To be fair it was only one band using them). They are a supercardioid mic. Thomann have them for around £25 each. At this price I think they would be ideal mics for students to use & abuse. Failing that you can't really go wrong with SM58 or Beta 58 if you have the budget. And yes the Sennheiser range are good too...

 

Regarding the SM57 you mention, you could just get extra SM58 (or Opus 39 or vocal mic of your choice), the difference is normally just the pop shield, the SM57 pop shield is thinner / lighter, giving a bit more top end to the sound. But personally I'd rather have the versatility, for those times when you need 15 vocal mics!

 

Hope that helps!

 

Justin

 

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