Further Education...

[Andy!]

Hello

 

Haven't posted on here in awhile. Hope all are well.

 

Just wanted to ask a few questions, I'm sure you get this a lot and hope you will be able to answer.

 

My current situation: I'm in my last year of sixth form, studying drama and media. I have just applied for University to study a 3 year course of Lighting design.

 

My Question: Has anyone here gone and studied lighting design? If yes do you think it is worth it at the end of it, or are you better off gaining your own experience via amateur theatres etc... ?

 

Also a close friend of mine, had trouble getting work as a technician in the last 20 years as he didn't actually have a qualification in electrics, but knew all the 'stuff' and had a BA(hons) in lighting design? Is it vital nowadays to have a qualification in electrics or do most courses included the minimal education of electrics required to make a career?

 

Hopefully that makes sense. I would greatly appreciate any information regarding what direction to go after sixth form.

 

Thanks alot.

[jim_bob]

Hi there Andy,

 

I'm currently doing a 3 year lighting design degree at Rose Bruford, I chose this root because I felt I wasn't ready to go out there in the big wide world of theatre just yet. I felt I needed to develop my technical skills even further and to get contacts even though I've worked in professional theatre before and done some freelance work. Having been here for about 5 weeks, I'm loving every bit of it, sometimes it can be heavy going in terms of talking in depth about whether lighting design is a art? etc but its good fun and the work load is not heavy at all..yet. Its all about experimentation here, if you go wrong, so what, you learn from it where as if your in the industry and do something wrong then sometimes its hard to get the jobs but I suppose this will always be the case. I know quite allot of people who have completed the degree and they have gone on to do big scale shows, tours, relights etc and have become well known.

 

I finished a 2 year Btec in technical theatre before I came to Rose Bruford which to be honest I didn't learn a thing from. This was mainly to do because I was working at a amateur theatre in which I've learnt everything from which I know today which has got me the jobs so far but I felt I needed more guidance and more time and thats why I've come to rosie b.

On the other hand I've got a close mate who has just worked up the ladder and now hes on a small scale tour being the LD and hes 22. That has took him 2 years of hard work of being a casual and doing freelance work plus the 6 odd years before that of learning the skills to achive this.

 

Overall I think its whatever you think is right, we can only say what we think but its what you would feel is right and how much you want it, the more you put into it and want it the more you will go in life and becoming a lighting designer, if you get me...

 

Anyway hope all goes well and good luck for the future ;)

 

Paul

[Andy!]

Thanks for the reply. I went to 'Rosie B' a couple of weeks ago for the open day, I did quite like it there just didnt really understand much about the course, the specification seems quite brief as well in the prospectus.

 

Quick question paul about the interview process. Did you apply via UCAS? If so did you hear back from the them fairly soon, asking for you to come to interview?

 

Thanks again.

 

Andy

[paulears]

They are all routes to the same thing. A real electricians qualfication is NOT required to get work in UK theatre, but don't forget that it does make you more useful - and in a smaller venue with less staff, having a proper sparks is a pretty good advantage when they're interviewing.

 

Higher education is tricky. Only this week they got more bad press because for all the tuition fees a uni in the south west owned up to having just 2 hours of lectures a week, with the rest being self-study and personal improvement - as in, we provide the resources, you teach yourself. If you are the kind of person who can make the most of this, it is great. If you went to uni on the assumption you would be taught, then you won't gain much.

 

Don't forget the other fact of life at uni - Rose Bruford and LIPA perhaps are good examples. The critical year is the final one. This is where you get to design your own production. To do it, you use year 1 and 2. Year 1 of course will just be humpers and bumpers - despite some being really good, most will still not know a PAR can from a Fresnel. Year 2 people will be more useful to you, as they will know a bit more, if they are keen and have kept up. If the staff recognise real talent in you, then no doubt you'll get assigned really useful people, or these people might even volunteer to do your show. If you've scraped through the first two years, then no doubt you'll get people of similar calibre to help you - not so good.

 

You might emerge with a good degree, through really hard work, and others might just scrape through - possible employers or clients will want proof you can do the job. In general, if you are good - through 3 years at uni and/or natural talent, all will be well. If you are not up to it, then the degree won't help.

 

 

One last point. There does seem to be a trend for employers to not really understand education, but make assumptions. They expect a qualification to mean you can do the job, not that you will need training. With budgets tight, many advertise for graduates on the assumption you know how to do the job - this, as I've found out cannot be guaranteed. Strand desks are still common, probably still the most common in the UK. Learning how to use them, despite having one, isn't high up RBs list of priorities.

 

Employers kind of expect people to have qualifications gained after compulsory education ended.

 

It is a sad fact of life that a GCSE at grade D is worthless - a C is just enough, but even that isn't good. A first Diploma from a college is worth a clump of C grades. If people do National Diplomas, and have PASS written on their piece of paper, this is treated like the GCSE D grade. Maybe the employers are right - maybe wrong, but that is the fact of life nowadays. If somebody has As or Distinctions this says something - both to the unis when they are doing their intakes, and employers when interviewing. If you don't do Further or Higher Education people assume you are dim. Not always true, but going for a job with no FE/HE quals is kind of saying 'nice but thick', 'trouble', or worst of all, 'lazy'.

[jim_bob]

Yes I did apply though UCA's, if I remember currently it did take some time until I heard from Rose Bruford asking for me to come for a interview but once I had the interview I had the letter offering me a place 2 days after.

 

I had the same feeling about not knowing what the course actually taught as it was very brief in the prospectus but I spoke to the programme director and he explain everything and I felt for me this was the right course for me.

 

most will still not know a PAR can from a Fresnel.

This is one of things which made me think what root to take because I didn't want to be taught what lights did what because I knew already, I wanted to experiment with lights and think outside the box about things. The course caters for everyone, people knowing very little can learn and the people who know more learn in another way.

[Ken Coker]

Higher education is tricky. Only this week they got more bad press because for all the tuition fees a uni in the south west owned up to having just 2 hours of lectures a week, with the rest being self-study and personal improvement - as in, we provide the resources, you teach yourself. If you are the kind of person who can make the most of this, it is great. If you went to uni on the assumption you would be taught, then you won't gain much.

 

If this is the University of Bristol history department, then there is actually more to this story than the brief summation above. As I understand it, and this was in an interview on "Drive" with one of the teaching staff and a student, there has been a fairly big redesign of the final year of the degree so that it now includes a hefty dissertation and such like....of course, it may not be the UoB in which case I will shut up....

 

kc

[paulears]

I thought I was quite delicate in not saying Bristol - but Ken's correct.

 

While taking the point that the course has been redesigned, cynics could say perhaps publicity could have driven this one through?

 

I have to say that I don't come accross many people, and mainly I'm talking about my old FE students, who thought they had had good value for money - especially interms of contact time. The Bristol example in the news had comments from students who were considering going home to live and commuting for the single day with a lecture in the afternoon.

 

How many hours contact time do your people have Ken? This would help put the thing into some kind of authoritative context in our own discipline, rather than Bristol's history one.

[Simon Lewis]

How many hours contact time do your people have Ken? This would help put the thing into some kind of authoritative context in our own discipline, rather than Bristol's history one.

 

Speaking on Ken's behalf (I have the timetables to hand).... It depends on which year and the modules chosen, but typically it's between 18 and ~ 21 hours of contact a week. With the prescribed study, assignments, practical write ups etc., we'd expect students to spend 37 - 40 hours a week in course related study.

 

The other institution mentioned above had their story reported in the Times yesterday....

 

Simon

[paulears]

I wonder if we could extend this - I think the hours are quite important and Simon's info shows what I suspect is pretty good, in the current climate. As he says, this is a considerable workload. Perhaps people with experience of other HE courses elsewhere, could comment. This would be quite interesting for all parties.

[J Pearce]

I feel I'm getting my money's worth with Derby. Some of my flatmates think my timetable is a killer, but I'm glad I'm getting the most out of of my £3000 a year.

 

In many ways HE is as good as you make it. If you bunk lectures and don't do any outside work through uni and expect it to be handed to you on a plate then you may pass the degree but what useful knowledge will you have picked up?

 

Uni and amdram are different worlds where you will learn different things with a different approach to learning. I wouldn't expect uni to give me 5 hours rigging sessions a week, it wouldn't represent good value for my money, by the same token I wouldn't expect to go to work or to rig an amdram and have an hour long lecture on optical properties of lenses and mirrors.

 

I spent a lot of time considering whether I was going to go to uni, having been offered a full time job in a theatre. In the end I decided to go, but give it some consideration; academia isn't for everyone.

 

Make the most of both worlds, get your practical experience and keep at it, and if you decide to go further in your academic education then work hard at it and try to strike a balance between uni and work.

 

Hope thats of some help, feel free to PM me.

[w/robe]

Perhaps people with experience of other HE courses elsewhere, could comment. This would be quite interesting for all parties.

 

 

Mountview's first year have 30 hours staff contact time a week for the 14 weeks that they are in attendance between September and Christmas. On top of this they would be expected to put in significant ammounts of personnal study.

[Andy!]

Thanks for all the advice, really do appreciate it, as there does seem to be a serious lack of carrer advisors etc who know anything about becoming an LD!

 

Andy

[Jamtastic3]

despite some being really good, most will still not know a PAR can from a Fresnel.

 

Are you being serious? Would you not expect people to have that level of knowledge before getting into the course? This statement kind of makes me feel that 'I don't need uni'. I know alot more than the differences of lights but at the same time I've been putting off uni because of A: expences and B: my own theory of knowing as much as I should to keep me going in the industry. Yet at the same time I know if I do go, I will learn alot more.

 

Times getting on so what would you say the kind of age cut off point would be? I know alot of course apply up to 21 yrs but can you still apply for courses later in life?

[Simon Lewis]

Times getting on so what would you say the kind of age cut off point would be? I know alot of course apply up to 21 yrs but can you still apply for courses later in life?

 

A slightly belated response, but for most higher education courses, age is not an issue (although by reason of the necessary pre-requisites, it's likely that you will be 18 or over).

 

The only point at which age may be taken into account is whether a student counts as a 'mature student' and may be allowed to enrol with industrial experience (or similar) partially in lieu of standard qualifications.

 

Simon

[paulears]

The universities generally find that the older people are, the more they are probably giving up to do the course, the more they really want to be there, and the more commited they are to staying! It is perhaps more difficult to integrate older people into the the mainly younger crowd, but it usually works.