Knife

[deranged-angel]

Hi all,

Hope you can help!!

Basically, we've got a production coming up which is based in a castle and the audience move around the castle following the action.. They are generally around 1-2 metres away from the actors.

Now then, there is a reason for me telling you that because we need to use some knives! There is a scene where a guy is stabbed and my thought was to use a flick knife because we can see him with the knife out then he can fold it away and stab the other actor. We've tried it in rehearsal with a flick comb I got from a fancy dress shop and it worked really well.

The only problem is, I'm not sure where I stand with flick knives. I know they are illegal for normal use but could I use one in a performance? the reason I want to use one is basically for safety reasons as the actor usng the knife then has to carry the stabbed actor over his shoulder in a fireman's lift so if the blade could be folded away, it would be a lot safer!! The knife is also used later on for stabbing strawberries so it cant be a retractable one because that won't work!!

However, I really dont want to get put in prison for using a flick knife so I wondered if anyone could shed any light. Ive tried looking at the home office's website but can't find anything and not sure where else to look!!

 

Thanks!!

Em

xxx

[david.elsbury]

The knife is also used later on for stabbing strawberries so it cant be a retractable one because that won't work!!

Same scene? Can you swap out for a non-retracting knife? Can you glue/whatever a second retracting knife so that it stays out?

 

Actually; thinking about it; I think you'd be better with a pin of some sort that can be inserted prior to the strawberry scene. Wouldn't want a mix up come show time...

 

Sorry I can be of no help regarding legalities.

 

David

[mac.calder]

I would not allow a real knife anywhere near someone being 'stabbed', even a bread and butter knife, let alone a flick knife. Now, if you are using a retractable knife, can you substitute stabbing strawberries for doing a sharp chop on the strawberries (using the side of the blade instead of stabbing). If so, a good quality (and expensive) theatrical retractable knife would work wonders.

[Ynot]

Hope you can help!!

Em, in short, if you MUST use a fake retractable knife then for all sorts of reasons go out an BUY one - a good quality one. In fact, a TOP quality one. Failing that HIRE a top quality one. DON'T even think about making one yourself.

Main reason? You only need one occasion for this prop to fail to do it's job, ie retract, and you have some serious issues on your hand (not to mention a trip to the A & E!).

The option of inserting a pin for the strawberry scene is also a no-no, as the potential risk of forgetting to remove it for the next show is also to high.

TD

[BenWall]

I have just worked on a production at uni called 'The Speculator', which had a knife being used to stab someone... Off the top of my head I don't know how they did it, however I will ask the SM. I know there were blood capsules and other things going on but not the supplier/manufacturer for the knife itself.

 

I will let you know when I can.

 

Ben.

 

P.S. I know there was quite a substantial section in our 'Camden Pack' (local council for H&S) regarding the use of the knife and the controls and fail safes that were in use. I will see if I can find a copy too.

[deranged-angel]

Thanks all for your replies so far.

I rang the police and asked them what they thought and they gave me permission to use either a flick knife or one that folds away into the handle. I think I will use the one that folds away rather than one that flicks just so that when the person is being "stabbed" all we have is a handle and the blade is folded away (and no chance of flicking out). In rehearsal, it looked pretty good and that means that there are no blades around at all for plunging into the actor or in his pocket when he exits the scene carrying the "dead" actor on his shoulder!!

 

I'm still open to suggestions though because anything that isn't a real knife would be easier on my part. In all honesty, I hate the things and would really rather not use them.

The stabbing of strawberries is in another scene and so would be possible to use a real knife there and some sort of retractable one for the stabbing. I just wanted the continuation of the knife as it is used by the same character. It would look really sinister if the knife used to kill someone is now being used as cutlery!! On that basis, a pin is out of the question. The castle also has tours on every day so if a pin did get left down there and a kiddie picked it up, I'd be in deep trouble.

 

Any more suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I will have a look for some good retractable knives!! thanks!

 

Em

x

[scarr]

If you are able to use the knive with the blade folded away for the stabbing scene, could you not jsut get two knives and remove the blade from one (so its just a knife handle).

 

The knife without a blade then gets used for the stab scene. This is then swapped for the one with a blade for the strawberry scene.

[deranged-angel]

Sorry, I'm obviously not making myself clear!!

 

Ok, so the murderer enters the scene and gets the knife out so that we can see he has a knife. Just before he stabs the victim, he folds it away so we still think he has that knife but actually, the blade is folded away. Therefore, the audience are fooled because they have seen the knife previously.

 

The knife is then locked open for the strawberry scene.

 

Cheers!

Em

[Ekij]

Two non folding knives.

Remove the blade from one.

 

Stabber appears with bladed knife, shows it to audience

person_to_be_stabbed enters.

Stabber switches knives (to no blade knife) and stabs person_to_be_stabbed with the handle only.

 

Knife with blade can then be used later for strawberries.

 

No folding blades, no pins, no things to stick, go wrong and make a really realistic stabbing scene. :P

[nina]

I recently did a show that needed a flick knife & I was repeatedly told that these were illegal in this country & no-one would sell me one (obviously you have a more liberal police force). We found some really good flick combs from a catalogue company called PAMS of Gainsborough (a fantastic source of all sorts of toy props) and asked the props department to adapt them so the combs were removed and replaced with very blunt blades, made of a thin steel from a craft shop, I think. The shape & size of the blades had to be quite precise as otherwise they would not fold back but they were so cheap in the first place we could experiment to our hearts content.

 

Hope that helps

[Brian]

...if you MUST use a fake retractable knife then for all sorts of reasons go out an BUY one - a good quality one. In fact, a TOP quality one...

Can anyone recommend a supplier of such a knife? And I don't mean 'try your local joke shop'.

[Ellis]

As several people have said here, a proffessionally made retractable blade knife is the only sensible way to go.

 

You are talking about using slight of hand anyway. If the actor 'shows' the real knife then swaps it for the retratable knife (preferably with the assistance of another responsible person who takes the real knife off the actor) while the audience are distracted. Then the next time 'the knife' is seen is as the blade plunges into the handle.

 

If you can, make the lighting very dark and shadowy, then no-one will notice what you have done.

 

Of course whatever you do, do a risk assessment. write down the worst thing that can happen, write down the likelihood if it hapening without any control measures (in confusion over forgotten lines, actor accidentally picks up real knife and stabs other actor). Decide on control measures, write them down, then assess new risk and likelihood - remember that which prop the actor has in their hand will be the last thing they think about!

[Dominicg]

This is rather amusing since I was watching "Monk" on BBC 1 earlier and it was about the lead actor being arrested for stabbing the lead male (I think) accidentally after the retractable and a real knife was mixed up in props. Was it her who did it or her jealous understudy?

 

=)

[robthoven]

A retractable blade knife is one way to go. I've been in over 6 productions in the last 5 years that involve a close range staged stabbing, using various weapons including double edge bastard sword, rapier, small sword, dagger, hunting knive, and one battle axe (ok that was more of a disembowelment than a stab).

 

In all cases we we used quality steel, non-retractable, weapons, that had (of course) DULLED points and edges, In most cases we had help from a certified fight director from the Society for American Fight Directors, or one of his students.

 

As several people have mentioned above there is a greater chance for failure and therefore injury with mechanical weapons.

 

The safest and most effective method for an onstage knife stab is to use a fixed blade DULLED knife and to turn your hand just before impact striking the "victim" firmly but lightly with a fist closed around the knife handle. The Victim then collapses his body around the knife and grabs and holds the knife as if clutching the wound.

 

The real trick to stage stabs and all stage violence is for both of the actors to sell the action. Audiences will not notice the slight of hand if your actions and reactions tell the story of a stab.

[paulears]

My friend who is our local PC was surprised the Police gave permision - he says this would be rather like making an exception to a law - if an item is a prohibited artefact, then he says the best they would do is not take action if a complaint was received, but he says you can't lift a law on a whim? - So you'd actually be using an illegal item with the promise of the police looking the other way - rest assured, he says, that if using it caused actual bodily damage, they'd prosecute!