Is a 575 HMI moving head (5600 k) very yellowish light ?

[plainman007]

Hi Guys,

 

Im planning to buy 4 moving heads of 575 watt with hmi lamps bearing a temperature of 5600k. Will the light from this unit be too yellowish or will it at least be better than a 250 msd based fixture ? Or do u think I could rather stick to a 250 msd moving head ? Please help.

 

Plainman

[david.elsbury]

What are the lights? Is using the CTB filter on the colour wheel an option, if it has one?

575 should be brighter than a 250, but at the end of the day it's all down to optics.

 

You ask if the light will be "better"... what would you define as better? ;)

David

[Bryson]

5600K is in no way yellowish. It's towards the blue end of the Colour Temperature scale.

 

You'll be fine.

[plainman007]

Hi Bryson,

 

You mean the higher the temp value ...the whiter or more bluish the light becomes ? or is it vice versa ? Someone I know personally told me that a 8500k light will have more whitishness (bluer spectrum) than the lower temperatures. How does this work ?

 

Thanks.

 

Plainman

 

 

5600K is in no way yellowish. It's towards the blue end of the Colour Temperature scale.

 

You'll be fine.

[Bryson]

Did you read the link?

 

The higher the Colour Temperature, the bluer the light is. Tungsten light is yellowish at 3200-3600K. HMI is very "white" at 5600K. 8500K is quite Blue.

 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/17/Color_temp2.png

[plainman007]

Did you read the link?

 

The higher the Colour Temperature, the bluer the light is. Tungsten light is yellowish at 3200-3600K. HMI is very "white" at 5600K. 8500K is quite Blue.

 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/17/Color_temp2.png

 

 

Hi Bryson,

 

My apologies. I sent that message before seeing your link. The link was very informative. It shows 5500k at exactly the white sector. Not bluer not yellower. I even saved the page. So will I be safe with this hmi based 575 watt head ? Instead of the 250 Msd Head. I mean will it be brighter with slightly more distance reach ?

 

I also wanted to ask you 2 more things. Do single armed moving heads bear any setbacks compared to the regular moving heads. And I am planning to buy these from a chinese manufacturer. Do you think chinese brands are reliable. People told me that they are very cheap there because of low labour and raw materials cost. And not because of quality. In fact they told me that half the USA based lighting products are commisioned to be manufactured in china. As it is obvious with televisions and so many other consumer products. What is your personal feeling about buying these china make lights ? Just your personal opinion.

 

Plainman

[niclights]

HMI 575 will be brighter than MSD 250 source. Usually higher lamp power also comes in conjunction with a larger diameter beam output, giving better coverage.

 

Other than the Minimac I have never seen any 'single arm' moving yokes. I would have said this is only viable when the weight of the head is not too great, otherwise it needs the extra support and, just as importantly, another belt/motor.

 

There are a number of things I would consider when buying cheaper units.

General build quality - if you are installing them then it's not too important, but if you are touring then you want them to be strong - not a thin plastic case.

Ease of maintainance. I have yet to see a reliable moving head, no matter how much you spend. The more expensive units are usually better thought out internally. Even if nothing goes wrong you will have to clean the optics. You will regret buying something that is a disaster to get into, or indeed even to change the bulb!

Similarly how available are parts/service? They will go wrong. (I will buy a hat and eat it if I am wrong!)

Quality of optics. This makes a huge difference and is probably the item you are paying for the most in expensive versions. It is quite possible that poor quality optics on a 575 will be not much brighter than high quality on a 250. I saw a perfect example when I compared 250 Robe's agains Coemar's a while back. The units were absolutely identical inside, with the exception of different colour cogs, yet the Coemar produced a much sharper & brighter image (both lamps were identical and new).

Other things:

Consider the control channels, especially dimming options/methods. If colour mixing is involved think about how well the dichroics are matched.

Are they belt or cog driven? Ideally cogs/direct drive are perhaps better, but I can't say I've ever known any problems with belts.

 

Ultimately it all depends on what you are going to use them for. Cheap means you can get more units, but might be false economy in the long term. As always you need to find the right balance.

 

HTH

[plainman007]

Niclights > Very insightful post. Thank you. Let me give you some more details so you can help me out here. I want to tell you that this is not for a rental purpose but for my own use. We are a performing arts team. We are buying these to use them for our own stage shows. We are talking a maximum of 10 shows in a year. Even if we complete one year we will have recovered the entire cost we spent on these lights. The manufacturer is offering a one year warranty. Another thing like you said about parts and spares. I am in srilanka. A very small island close to India. In fact the only other options I have are to buy from Uk or USA. And both of these places are farer than China (which is closer and much cheaper). Another thing is that these are going to be very gently used for our personal use. But I admit just like you said, ive seen a lot of Mheads even during our rental days giving problems. Because theres so many more moving parts inside I guess !. The build quality etc is ok on these lights we are planning to buy. Its made in ridged alluminium body and not plastic. So I think that would be ok for touring etc. I think theres a single door access to replace bulb. And regarding taking apart the unit. I believe its very easy to do this. In fact the manufacturer advertises that its very easy to take apart and assemble.

 

About the optics...hmmm I guess your right on that one. I cant say good or bad about these because theres no sure way of knowing. Cant look at a lens and tell how good it will be. At least I cant.

 

The control channels are fairly good. 0-100% dimming. 11 colors. Prisms. IP protection. NO compromise on features I guess. In fact to be frank they offer more channels compared to a higher priced version available in my country. And this is coming in at about 30% lesser in price. Theres no color mixing involved. Just plain single color wheel. Which is enough for us.

 

Yes bottom line is we can get more lights instead of few.

 

What do you feel about this buy ?

[SceneMaster]

What make\model are they?

[paulears]

The criical thing in your post was that these things have a dimmer, loads don't.

 

Single arm yokes tend to be 150W versions - do you mean the 575W have only one arm? If so, that's a lot of weight. Mu experience of chinese lighting is that they tend to over engineer anything likely to cause issues, but by over engineer, I mean they use cruder technology, but stronger - so instead of nice , small precision bearings, you get chunkier, larger ones that tend to be a little less smooth and make more noise. Their stepper motors again make a fair bit of noise. Fans tend to run very fast and again, a decent amount of noise, but the guts run cooler as a result. Service will be pretty poor, as will the expected lifespan. But, if these are for your own use, and you will look after them, they'll be ok. One thing that matters is the dealer - are they a real dealer, or a box shifter. Do they have a service department?

 

If you can find a 575W lamped beast that does what you want at a great price, then give it a try? Just be prepared to be dissapointed a little later, if things go a little - odd.

 

Last point will be controlling them -you are not likely to find a fixture library or profile for them, so you'll probably have too write your own, depending on the desk you use.

[niclights]

Yup. Given your application & location all arguments point to the cheaper units, especially if you are happy to have covered your costs during the 1yr warranty. I agree with everything Paul says. If it is a 575 unit I would be worried with only one arm! The optics are important and are what makes the expensive units so much better, but I think it is fair to assume that, unless you buy one of the top leading R&D type manufacturer units (High-End/VL/Martin etc.), they will all be very much the same. It would be interesting if you can post a link to these.

[luisdjar]

Hi!

tell us from which company do you want to buy. in china are a lot of manufacturers, but not all have the same quality.

this month, I bought from chinese surepro two 150w one arm moving heads. they are a copy of robe 170xt. im not used too much yet, but for the money seems to be ok. good movement, perfect DMX response, good colors and gobos, good gobo rotation. the biggest weak are the optics, its very complicated to get a perfect focused gobo projection. I think is because the wide beam angle, but light output seems to be ok, compared my martin MX1 scanners, I bought this MH to use with.

now I ordered two more units, but msd250w versions, to use with some martin 518. when ill receive it ill post some pics to compare light output with 518.

[plainman007]

Hi Guys...

 

Paulears > Yes, your right ! these things have internal 0-100% electronic dimming. 7hz - 10 hz strobing per second. Between 8 to 11 colors depending on the model and manufacturer. Prism. Variable speed rotation. Even remote focusing. (some of the high end manufacturers never give you remote focusing, unless we are paying for an expensive model). About the single arm thing...None of the 575 watt heads are one one arm. Only upto 250 msd units are on single arm. About the stepper motors and the fans making noise....again not an issue with our show. Theres mostly music playing in the background. And its not like an opera show where we need exceptional silence etc. Its more of a dance/fashion show style. About the dealer. Its not a dealer. Its a real brick and mortar based factory punching out 1000s of moving heads. In fact they told me theyd offer me a 10% discount only if I ordered more than 100 units. You can imagine what volumes these guys must be pumping out. But they all seem to be reliable guys with factories as big as 2,00,000 square feet. Their sites feature pics of the heads being factory assembled and believe me its the first time (even in a pic) that im seeing literally about hundred moving heads on an assembling line. We are talking huge assembling yards to say the least. So regarding the service dept. We are buying from the service dept. ** laughs out loud **. They are offering a one year warranty and full support on spares etc. Its quite cheap to even send the unit back and forth to them even by air. About 3$ per kg. About the disappointment part I wanted to say. I was very worried about chinese equipment too. But guess what..My friend whos a DJ has bought the same 575 moving heads from the same Manufacturer in China. And hes been doing rentals very often from open air parties to disco shows and theyve been running for 8 months since purchase and not a single complaint. That was the only evidence that gave me hope. Controlling them wont be a problem because im using Sunlite computer based software running from a pc. I think they let you create you own fixture library in minutes thru a step by step process. Or Sunlite offers to code any fixtures channels overnight if you just mail them the DMX chart of the unit. Looks like ive been doing some home work heh. And all this at about 300 USD per unit. Where can we ever find lights like this for such throw away prices. So what do you feel about this situation Paul ?

 

Hi Nic > Ill try to get back onto the net and send you the actual links, Because I only saved them as MHTML files on my laptop. Yes like you say. Juts 10 shows and ive got my money back. Ill just go next year and buy another complete set and ill be twice safer with double the number of lights. Maybe in 3 years ill have about 15 moving heads. Great for my show. In just 3 years. What do you say ?

[paulears]

I quite agree - seems a very good deal price wise - I don't agree, however on shipping costs. Surface freight from them to here is a bit expensive, but nothing like the cost of sending freight international back to there! Air freight on kit weighting 20Kg plus is pretty well a non-started, cost wise. Sea freight also takes a damn long time. The kit I got from china (golden scan size wooden coffin type crates) took 3 months to get here, I assumed the ship went from there to here, but it zig-zagged accross the entire globe from port to port.

 

It is also quite difficult paying for them - normal bank practices don't work well, and often letters of credit are required which area pain and a bit risky, still - it sounds as if you have worked this bit out already.

paul

[TommyToad]

He is from sri lanka, not uk.