Which Lighting Desk?

[Benj]

Hi,

 

I have 3 grand to spend on a new lighting desk. Generic mainly with the option of some movers/scrollers etc. It is to be used in a college so I need something powerful yet user friendly. I am playing with the idea of Jands 408, Leap Frog or ETC express. Does anyone have any other ideas? Also has anyone used any of them a regular basis? If so can they shed some light on the +/- of them?

 

Cheers

 

Ben

[Adrianfreston]

Ben,

 

I would go for the ETC, its simple and easy to use I grew up with the Express, Expression and Insight. They do have some ML capabilities, but I am suspecting that this will be a very rare occurrence that you will need this function.

However do some research, call the companies you listed, or their dealers and get a demo. Make up your own mind. However golden rule. Consider that all the users are not going to be as advanced as you maybe so be careful with the choice of interface to the console and how easy and intuitive it is.

 

Adrian

[timmath]

If you got £3k then have a look at the new small Compulites, or a Hog PC System. Failing that save some dosh and get a fat frog!

 

While the ETC desks are very good for conventionals I have not come across anything so unfriendly for programming moving lights.

 

Regards

 

Tim

[Guest lightnix]

Do you know what it will be driving rig-wise, the make and number of dimmers, etc.? Are there any house movers, or are they hired in?

 

The types of show staged should also be a factor in your decision. Will it mainly be for theatre, or are there going to be a few bands, discos and general gigs thrown into the mix? Will the desk have a permanent home need to be frequently set up and put away?

 

I've never really liked Compulites myself, mainly due to past experiences of older desks with strange logic.

 

I'm not sure how gig-able the Hog PC would be and it's possibly still a bit too new and untried for my tastes. You'd certainly need to flight case the PC and make it as audience proof as possible.

 

I don't know much about the Fat Frog, but it seems to be getting popular and certainly looks good value for money.

 

Avo Azure Shadow, anybody?

[slim_mcslim]

£3000.....

 

I'd go for the behringer and pocket the £2850 change or alternatively buy 2 behringers one for movers and one for generics and you can still afford a kebab and a taxi home...

 

Or secondly I would reccommend the azure shadow (pah avolites (spits in further disgust)) but the shadow it is a much better desk than the mcdonalds till version and it works like a mini pearl (spits again) but from a programming point of view it teaches quite a good structure and is good for movers and generics, only downside is it doesn't have lots of faders to play with (but it does have wheels of steel)

 

Paul...

[Guest lightnix]

I'd go for the behr...

AAARRRGGGHHH!!!

AAARRRGGGHHH!!!

AAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

 

Don't get me started on them again ;)

[Shaun Foster]

The express is good if it will be used by people at different skill levels. The 24/48 48/96 etc can be operated in 2 preset mode if necessary, and subs can be recorded by setting up a scene on the manual faders and pressing two buttons. Good theatre desks, but, as others have said, for rock and roll and movers you'd be better tapping the DMX line with a battery.

[TallPaul]

I use both the Express and the Fat Frog, and lightguy is right about the Express being a bit tricky to use with movers lights compared to other desks. Assuming you want them to do wiggly things, as opposed to CYM wash lights etc. So if the desk is purely for theatre, I would go for the Express.

 

The Fat Frog is really good for busking things like small rock gigs etc, where you have a handful of moving lights, and want a good mix between modifying things on-the-fly, and pre-programming certain effects. I find it rather irritating for theatre work. Editing cues can be frustrating at first but becomes easier once you get the hang of how it's designed to work.

[Stu]

I'm a regular Expression user as we have 2 at work and although I like them for generic rigs (not so much that I wouldn't replace them with 520s if I had a choice) because they are easy to use, never break down and do the job perfectly well. But, they are a pain (and a big one at that) for anything that gets near MLs. I programmed a show with just 2x Pirouette's and some Rainbow Pro's and it was a nightmare.

 

If your looking at having the option of occasionally ML use, consider a Leap Frog - altho the lack of command line (I think) makes this a tiresome option for theatre.

 

Or just buy an Express 24/48, 48/96 or Strand 300 (etc etc) and hire in a ML desk as and when required....

 

HTH

Stu

[propmonkey]

im used to strand. etc seems like a good choice. also lepercon(sp?) I hear are very user friendly you shoudl check into them.

[johnhuson]

If it is to be used to teach students at the college, who are going to be going out and working in theatre, I would suggest an ETC, Strand or something similar that has a theatre style programming syntax. Much as I love Avolites boards, to me the theatre section of them is a bit to much of a bolt on option, that isn't that user friendly.

[gareth]

Some good comments in this thread so far - not least Tim's remarks about the unpleasantness of programming moving lights on an ETC. Believe it. :)

 

The point about teaching college students on a desk that they're likely to encounter in the big wide world is also a good one. If you're teaching college students, who are likely to progress to a job in technical theatre and specifically lighting, then it makes so much sense to teach them on something that they're likely to find when they leave college - which, in a majority of cases, will be something GeniusPro-based from Strand. Or possibly ETC.

 

If, on the other hand, you're looking for a general-purpose desk for a college theatre which isn't going to be used specifically as a teaching tool for students on a technical theatre course, then I think you could do a lot worse than a Fat Frog. Not a fan of them myself, but they certainly have a good "fan base" in schools and colleges, and for the price they're good desks.

 

Avo are fine desks, but their theatre playback facilities really suck.

 

And Nix is right about Behringer. :(

[Benj]

Thank you for all the replys! You are giving me alot to think about. Keep them coming :(

 

I should state that the reason for this purchase is start the ball rolling as such. At the moment the college equipment is old and the need of entire refit. ( I am using Multiform dimmers/zodiac36). So if I buy something that exceeds our equipments capability at the moment they have to keep giving me money to keep updating. (Well thats the plan) :)

 

Whats interesting is that no one has metioned the JANDS which when I was shown at Plasa seemed a good desk for the price? I completly understand the idea of using a desk which students will then go onto using in the professional world, I personally like the Strand but my boss is uneasy because of the Syntax and students can be quite duanted when they first use one, but then the 24/48 gives you the 2preset option plus the command line option. The ETC option is still a good option but it is more expensive, but then to let students use a desk that is not ML friendly is not helping them in the professional world (but I suppose if they can program ML on ETC they can program on anything!). The Frogs do seem user friendly we have a Alcora and it could not be easyier. Hmmm decisions decisions!!

[Stu]

The ETC option is still a good option but it is more expensive, but then to let students use a desk that is not ML friendly is not helping them in the professional world (but I suppose if they can program ML on ETC they can program on anything!).

I don't know what level your students are at previously to entering the college, or when they leave, so I hope I'm not talking alot of rubbish on something your already aware off.

 

If your kids are having their first experiences of Lighting then having a desk that won't run MLs is not such a bad thing. I say this because when I first started doing Lighting about 4yrs ago I learnt on an Strand MX48. It was about 18 months before I even had my first ML exprience in terms of programming / designing a show. The gap was a good thing as I got to spend 18 months spending some real good quality time with Harmony's, 743s, 264s etc before running before I could walk.

 

Anyway, it'll save situations where an internet-savvy student finds out the desk can run x amount of MLs and wants to get stuck in, 4 weeks into it all.

 

I'd say it'd be better to invest in a Strand over an ETC, purely for the reason that more people will experience them in the real wide world. I only know of one, maybe 2 other Houses on the UK touring circuit (mid-scale) who are fellow Expression users (or similar).

 

Just some of my musings on a rainy October night.

Stu

[DanielArkley]

I completly understand the idea of using a desk which students will then go onto using in the professional world, I personally like the Strand but my boss is uneasy because of the Syntax and students can be quite duanted when they first use one, but then the 24/48 gives you the 2preset option plus the command line option.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Tell him not to be - I'm 16, and managed to pull off a show of 106 cues on a Strand 520, having never even touched the actual desk before hand - I did learn a lot of it in the OLE, with the help of a few BRers (who know who they are). For the record, all I had used before hand was a Zero88 Alcora.