Buying small PA System

[miniquinny]

Hi,

 

This is my first time posting on here, and this question might be too simple for some people to bother with but I would appreciate absolutely any help at all!

 

Basically, a friend and I want to do some gigging around Manchester in bars, hotels, restaurants, weddings etc. playing jazz, blues etc., so the venue size will vary from 50 to maybe 300 people. He plays piano and I sing and play tenor sax.

 

He is going to buy an electric piano and a Roland 100W amp and so I wanted some advice on a smallish PA system that would be suitable to either just support vocals and sax, using the Roland amp for the piano, or a system which incorporates support of the piano with/without the use of the Roland.

 

I have looked on a few sites and seen the Phonics RoadGear 260, Carlsbro Traveller and the likes, but also some systems put together by the shop itself, such as:

 

http://www.stagebeat.co.uk/product.php?pro...pa_package_400w

 

The budget is about £500/£600 and basically, as I am not, yet, technically minded and a novice at the equipment side of things, I am after some advice/opinions as to how large a system to buy, wattage, brands, technical bits/specs to look out for and so on.

 

Thanks in advance to anyone who replies. :(

 

Alex

[zonino]

first, welcome!

 

secondly, there is another topic at the moment about buying a smallish PA here

 

which may be useful, personally I wouldnt buy the amp for the piano separate, I'd use the money to invest into the PA system and power them all through that which will allow you to change your levels more easily,

 

also I'd go for a separate mixing desk rather than one built into the amp (mainly personal preferance for me I'll admit)

[Liquid Nik]

The soundcraft powerstation 600 is a good start with a reasonable pair of speakers ((we have a pair of JBL eon 15's)but there are other, probably better, speaker options) . I'm asuming that you are mixing yourselves and want to keep the mixer near you and away from punters and drinks. The powerstation has an integral amp and a lexicon processor on board so less to carry. SM 58's for sax & vox for robustness and a DI Box for your keys.

[audio]

Hey

 

While personally I would prefer a separate mixer, I think by the sound of it you're better getting a mixer amp combo like the one your hyperlink refers to, as your not going to have a sound engineer to play with the mixer during the gigs anyway.

 

So you'd need... two microphones (vocal and sax), two microphone stands and then the amp/speaker package. I think you'd be slightly over your £600 budget by the end, as you'll be wanting half decent microphones as a musician to make your duo sound good, and Stands that will last more than a few shows are £20+ each.

 

I wouldnt buy the amp for the piano separate, I'd use the money to invest into the PA system and power them all through that

I completely agree with this suggestion, although the 400W system you are looking at might be large enough for your purposes, just get a DI box and run the keyboard through that into the mixer

Anyways, thats my 2p

John

[Liquid Nik]

wouldnt buy the amp for the piano separate, I'd use the money to invest into the PA system and power them all through that

But on the other hand aseperate amp that is also DIed gives you a monitor for the keys.

[audio]

True, I hadn't really thought that through, had I ??:P

[Mr.Si]

But if you're plugged into a PA system in small venues, you probably won't need a monitor as you can monitor from the FOH speakers - there isn't much in the way of Backline to mask the sound. - maybe only the Saxophone.

 

Though it does depend on how much keys are put through the PA.

 

Si

[Liquid Nik]

But wouldnt you agree that its better to have clean sound from an amp rather than a muffled reflected sound from the back of the PA

[Mr.Si]

yes, but I'm thinking on terms of their budget.

 

An amp would take a noticable chunk out of the £600 that they (want/need/don't want) to spend.

 

That's all really. Monitors would be a luxury on this budget.

[bruce]

yes, but I'm thinking on terms of their budget.

 

An amp would take a noticable chunk out of the £600 that they (want/need/don't want) to spend.

 

That's all really. Monitors would be a luxury on this budget.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thomann do a powered wedge monitor for 76 pounds, and unpowered for 40. Even a rubbish-quality powered wedge is going to improve matters. So I wouldn't regard it as a luxury at all...

 

Bruce.

[Mr.Si]

I stand corrected! :P

[zonino]

I agree I hadn't thought of that (bloody lampies!)

[paulears]

If he is going to buy a piano - it's vital he get one designed for stage work. Most 'home' pianos have really thin, weedy sound quality when ampligfied. Clavinovas especially so. Beware of anything with built in speakers, as the tonal quality is designed for them - not external amplification. The other thing is that they don't travel very well. Physically, they are weak. Invest in a decent pro quality stage piano, or a synth - korgs are well liked and have decent piano sounds. They also let you layer extra pad sounds under the piano, to fill out what you have. A two piece is always lacking a bit in depth. For the sax you'll need reverb, else you will sound like a kazoo. A clip on mic on the bell, will give you a bit more mobility, rather than being glued to a mic stand.

 

One other option for PA could be 3 powered speakers - left right and monitor, run from a small compact mixer. Thomann have plenty of powered speakers at good price points, add a couple of stands and you are there. I'd make sure, if you intend not miking up the keys, that the monitor can cope with the left hand. With no bass player, it will be working hard.

paul

[miniquinny]

Thanks for all that advice - more than helpful!

 

The pianist has gone ahead and bought his piano and decided to buy an amp, a 100W/120W Roland, anyway as we might not always be performing together.

 

So am I right in thinking that the Roadgear/Traveller systems are not powerful enough? I would imagine we would put the piano through it's own amp if it is there for us to use, but the suggestion of using it as a monitor is a good one!

 

Also, I would think that, for convenience and kit size, we would go for a mixer/amp combined.

 

There is only one reply that says the 400W system would be ok - what sort of power do you think is necessary if we used the piano amp as an amp, and if we used it as a monitor?

 

Thanks again! :P

[paulears]

It isn't that they aren't powerful enough, it's that they are lightweight (in Kg AND sound)

 

They are a clever design, look nice. They are the sort of thing people who don't know any better, buy. You can get a MUCH better sounding system for similar money.

 

What you can do, now he's bought his amp and kb, is either use it straight, or use his amp as a monitor through the mixer. This way, in bigger rooms when he can't hear the sax or vocals, that too will come out of his speaker. Try it and see what works best for you. If you are only putting vox and sax through the PA then the smallish speakers (as in the two combo systems you have mentioned) will probably cope - although the tonal qualities won't assist geting a nice sax timbre. The other thing is expandability. Buy a combo and that's it. Invest in separates and you can add more as you grow.