Blue Room technical forum: Security & Laser Pens - Blue Room technical forum

Jump to content

Warning

IMPORTANT The Blue Room Safety Forum is provided for the informal discussion of safety-related technical production matters. No warranty is implied concerning the accuracy of any information contained therein. The administrators of this site can accept no responsibility for any inaccuracy of information in the Safety Forum, or for any loss, damage or injury arising from any interpretation of its contents. Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the site administrators. If in doubt, consult a qualified professional.
  • 3 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Security & Laser Pens A good mix?

#1 User is offline   smalljoshua 

  • Should probably post less
  • Group: Regular Members
  • Posts: 2,477
  • Joined: 22-February 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Plymouth, England

Posted 26 January 2012 - 05:18 PM

Security guards in venues who have decided the best way to get punters attention is to use a nice bright green laser shined straight into their eyes. I was fuming when I saw it last night but I couldn't do anything as I was a punter in the place too.

Josh
--------------------------Production Engineer------------------------
Nub Sound Ltd ------------- http://www.nubsound.co.uk/
Follow us on Twitter - Have you seen our Facebook Page?
Plymouth Based Sound, Lighting, Video and Events Solutions

#2 User is offline   themadhippy 

  • Psychonaut
  • Group: Regular Members
  • Posts: 2,468
  • Joined: 31-January 03
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lost in space and time

Posted 26 January 2012 - 05:45 PM

Don't go to a riot anytime soon josh,unless youve got mirrored sunglasses http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/16137543
Rember folks,were all in this to gather

#3 User is offline   smalljoshua 

  • Should probably post less
  • Group: Regular Members
  • Posts: 2,477
  • Joined: 22-February 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Plymouth, England

Posted 26 January 2012 - 05:50 PM

[Goes and orders diffraction gratings to go on his glasses]
--------------------------Production Engineer------------------------
Nub Sound Ltd ------------- http://www.nubsound.co.uk/
Follow us on Twitter - Have you seen our Facebook Page?
Plymouth Based Sound, Lighting, Video and Events Solutions

#4 User is offline   Matthew Robinson 

  • Fulltimer
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Regular Members
  • Posts: 371
  • Joined: 09-June 09
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sheffield

  • Formerly mr7526

Posted 26 January 2012 - 07:38 PM

View Postsmalljoshua, on 26 January 2012 - 05:18 PM, said:

Security guards in venues who have decided the best way to get punters attention is to use a nice bright green laser shined straight into their eyes. I was fuming when I saw it last night but I couldn't do anything as I was a punter in the place too.

Josh


Although it's an awful idea, the brightness and exposure time to the laser is likely to mean that there was no danger of lasting damage to the punters eyes.
M. Robinson
2nd year student - MEng Electronic and Electrical Engineering,
University of Sheffield

'It is the actor's job to think that they are awesome. It is the technician's job to persuade the audience to agree'

#5 User is offline   sleah 

  • Technical Manager
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Regular Members
  • Posts: 883
  • Joined: 10-November 03
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Macclesfield, Cheshire

Posted 27 January 2012 - 10:14 AM

View PostMatthew Robinson, on 26 January 2012 - 07:38 PM, said:

View Postsmalljoshua, on 26 January 2012 - 05:18 PM, said:

Security guards in venues who have decided the best way to get punters attention is to use a nice bright green laser shined straight into their eyes. I was fuming when I saw it last night but I couldn't do anything as I was a punter in the place too.

Josh


Although it's an awful idea, the brightness and exposure time to the laser is likely to mean that there was no danger of lasting damage to the punters eyes.


Errr.... that's quite a bold statement to make! Not sure it would hold up as a defence...... :rolleyes:
Simon Leah

Grumpy Old Man

#6 User is offline   Matthew Robinson 

  • Fulltimer
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Regular Members
  • Posts: 371
  • Joined: 09-June 09
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sheffield

  • Formerly mr7526

Posted 27 January 2012 - 12:41 PM

View Postsleah, on 27 January 2012 - 10:14 AM, said:

View PostMatthew Robinson, on 26 January 2012 - 07:38 PM, said:

View Postsmalljoshua, on 26 January 2012 - 05:18 PM, said:

Security guards in venues who have decided the best way to get punters attention is to use a nice bright green laser shined straight into their eyes. I was fuming when I saw it last night but I couldn't do anything as I was a punter in the place too.

Josh


Although it's an awful idea, the brightness and exposure time to the laser is likely to mean that there was no danger of lasting damage to the punters eyes.


Errr.... that's quite a bold statement to make! Not sure it would hold up as a defence...... :rolleyes:


It's not a reason to do it- and as I said it's an awful idea- however, I can only imagine that they had a small laser pointer (because anything bigger is impractical) and that they would point it at the person until they responded. At which point, what I said would make it- not acceptable- but unlikely to cause major damage to the punters' eyes.

This post has been edited by Matthew Robinson: 27 January 2012 - 12:42 PM

M. Robinson
2nd year student - MEng Electronic and Electrical Engineering,
University of Sheffield

'It is the actor's job to think that they are awesome. It is the technician's job to persuade the audience to agree'

#7 User is offline   smalljoshua 

  • Should probably post less
  • Group: Regular Members
  • Posts: 2,477
  • Joined: 22-February 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Plymouth, England

Posted 27 January 2012 - 01:07 PM

It was 2x AA Mag Size. To my eyes it looked as bright as a 100mW Green I've seen before. I left quite quickly after that.

Josh
--------------------------Production Engineer------------------------
Nub Sound Ltd ------------- http://www.nubsound.co.uk/
Follow us on Twitter - Have you seen our Facebook Page?
Plymouth Based Sound, Lighting, Video and Events Solutions

#8 User is offline   Dmills 

  • Head of Department
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Regular Members
  • Posts: 721
  • Joined: 21-March 05

Posted 27 January 2012 - 10:43 PM

Always difficult to judge power, but a hand held static beam into someone’s face is well out of order even if it is 5mW (100mW is well above anything remotely safe without calculation of exposure values and much thought).

Even worse, many of these cheap greens lack IR filtering and also put out significant power at 1064nm which is in no way eye safe, and the power there can exceed the power in the green beam.

I think I would have been out the door as well, and may have had a quiet word with the environmental health folks.

Regards, Dan.

#9 User is offline   ramdram 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Regular Members
  • Posts: 1,378
  • Joined: 20-April 10
  • Location:Far East Cornwall

Posted 28 January 2012 - 09:54 AM

Never mind the brilliant laser per se...it's the less than brilliant bright spark behind it!

Imagine the scenario where the security guard (dubious term that anyway)fails to get instant attention...and carries on illuminating the "suspect" yet splashing innocent punters nearby. Or if the security bloke loses it and stands right in front of the person and gives them the full monty from 6".

Then you might get the my maglite is bigger than your maglite....who knows what sort of kit they might acquire?

Sounds like a nasty weapon in the "wrong" hands. I say ban them right now and huge fine for anyone caught using them anywhere....after all, who's to say they don't get used in a mugging...or worse?

I would be very sceptical if these devices were licensed for "crowd control" by any local authority in their right mind.

#10 User is offline   Simon Lewis 

  • Elf and Safety rep
  • Group: Regular Members
  • Posts: 3,748
  • Joined: 24-March 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Derby, UK

Posted 28 January 2012 - 10:07 AM

Josh's post was the first I had heard of the practice, so I did a quick look around t'web. Seems there are a few security supplies companies who sell laser pointers for this very purpose (alongside SIA badge holders and slash proof gloves). Their American cousins suggested it wasn't a good idea, as the crowd might assume it was a gun sight trained on them...

I'm uncomfortable with the practice. Granted, a proper low energy laser pointer shouldn't damage eyes (apart from some temporary discomfort according to one study), but as suggested above it can be hard to know if the product unintentionally or deliberately flouts the standard.

Given that those who shine a laser at a police car or helicopter are (quite rightly) arrested, it seems irresponsible at best for security staff to use a pointer in this way. If Josh doesn't want to do it, I'm happy to raise the matter with the local council.

Simon
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge"

#11 User is offline   smalljoshua 

  • Should probably post less
  • Group: Regular Members
  • Posts: 2,477
  • Joined: 22-February 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Plymouth, England

Posted 28 January 2012 - 11:36 AM

Thanks for the advice guys. I've raised the matter with the venue management and also the chain's general complaints address (anyone who knows what chain club in Derby holds a student night on a wednesday can smile at that) so I'm waiting for a reply from them.

If that doesn't work though, I may take you up on your offer Simon.

Josh
--------------------------Production Engineer------------------------
Nub Sound Ltd ------------- http://www.nubsound.co.uk/
Follow us on Twitter - Have you seen our Facebook Page?
Plymouth Based Sound, Lighting, Video and Events Solutions

#12 User is offline   DrummerJonny 

  • Fulltimer
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Regular Members
  • Posts: 333
  • Joined: 20-January 09
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Essex

Posted 28 January 2012 - 12:52 PM

The security in my venue use laser pointers.

As far as I'm concerned, while there are risks to using them as above, they are very effective at pointing out a single punter across a darkened room where a maglite would spread out and highlight the general area, leaving it down to radio communication to describe the troublemaker. Hard when all our customers pretty much dress the same... They are also trained to not point them at faces. Less for getting a customer's attention, more for pinpointing them so they can be spoken to / removed. A green laser shining across the room also stands out against our lighting so it's easier for security to notice if there has been an incident that requires their attention.

However, the first week they had them, a couple realised how cool they looked if they shone them at the mirror balls... soon put a stop to that...

#13 User is offline   Bobbsy 

  • Grumpy Old Git
  • Group: Moderators
  • Posts: 4,274
  • Joined: 24-August 04
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Queensland, Australia

Posted 28 January 2012 - 03:04 PM

I suspect you're just asking for a lawsuit, DrummerJonny. It would be all too easy for the laser light to get directly into somebody's eyes, likely not even the one you're pointing at. Not that I tend to go to venues that need bouncers but if a laser even came close to my eyes anywhere I'd be straight onto the authorities.
Resistance is not futile. It's voltage divided by current.

#14 User is offline   DrummerJonny 

  • Fulltimer
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Regular Members
  • Posts: 333
  • Joined: 20-January 09
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Essex

Posted 28 January 2012 - 03:26 PM

View PostBobbsy, on 28 January 2012 - 03:04 PM, said:

I suspect you're just asking for a lawsuit, DrummerJonny. It would be all too easy for the laser light to get directly into somebody's eyes, likely not even the one you're pointing at. Not that I tend to go to venues that need bouncers but if a laser even came close to my eyes anywhere I'd be straight onto the authorities.


I have thought this to be honest. Security are externally hired and essentially run themselves with liason with venue managers. I'll bring it up tonight with the managers and point out the risks.

#15 User is offline   kerry davies 

  • Retired Non-Gentleman
  • Group: Regular Members
  • Posts: 2,518
  • Joined: 23-February 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Hay-on-Wye

Posted 28 January 2012 - 04:38 PM

Good thinking Jonny, just ask yourself who the punter's lawyer will sue. Follow the money is always a good shortcut and the punter does not pay the bouncer for entry, he pays the venue owner/manager.

One time when a NIMBY attitude is to be respected.

Share this topic:


  • 3 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic